Slavko and Ivo Goldstein and their book
“Jasenovac and Bleiburg are not the same” –
Photo: Zarko Basic/Pixsell
YES THEY ARE and WHAT’S MORE “BLEIBURG”
REPRESENTS MANY MORE DEAD
INNOCENTS AT THE HANDS OF COMMUNISTS
In very recent days Slavko Goldstein, founder in 1989 of Croatian Social Liberal Party (HSLS) and writer, has given an interview to Croatia’s Novi List in which he states in no uncertain words that EU remembrance day of victims of totalitarian regimes should not be held on the same day (23 August) for victims of Nazi regime (Hitler) and victims of Communist crimes (Stalin) because it equates the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany and that, he said, is “in contradiction with the entirety of historical truth”.
Given that Goldstein was a Partisan in the communist led Yugoslav troops of WWII one is not surprised at such views of his. After all, Stalin and Europe’s communists (including Yugoslavia’s Tito) were aligned with the Allies and they wrote the history to which Goldstein refers, leaving out of the historical spotlight the equally atrocious crimes perpetrated by communists as were those perpetrated by the Nazis.
Goldstein goes on to say that both Hitler and Stalin were criminals, but not of the same kind! “Hitler,” he says, “ from beginning to end pursued his criminal politics. Stalin commenced his criminal politics during 1920’s, which culminated during 1930’s with the massive purges, but from 1941 to 1945 he was the main carrier of battles against Hitler… unfortunately he resumed his purges after the war ended…”
In a commentary to this interview given by Goldstein, R.Horvat of HRSvijet portal writes: “And despite the estimates by which modern European historical account considers that communism is responsible for the death of more than 100 million people, of which 50 million victims are attributed to Mao Tze-Tung, 40 million to Stalin, 4 million to Lenin, 2 million to Pol Pot and 1 million to Tito, while 20 million deaths are attributed to Hitler, Slavko Glodstein wants to convince the Croatian public that it’s out of order to equate Hitler’s national-socialism with communism”.
Slavko Goldstein nevertheless admits that communism perpetrated crimes but he continues defending the role of Stalin and Soviet Union.
To me, Goldstein’s conviction is nothing more than blatant discrimination between victims. Does it really matter whether the majority of Stalin’s victims fell in brutal and atrocious sweeps by the totalitarian regime before and after, but not during WWII? No, it does not!
23 August was chosen to coincide with the date of the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (23.08. 1939/ a.k.a. Nazi-Soviet Pact, non-aggression pact), in which the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany agreed to divide Eastern Europe between themselves. Both of these countries at the time had the worst forms of totalitarian regimes in the history of humanity. Hence, the very appropriate date chosen by the EU to remember victims of totalitarian regimes. The two subsequently collided with vicious and atrocious force. Essentially, one could say that Stalin was the front man for the Jews and Hitler was the enemy of the Jews.
Furthermore, the truth of history when it comes to Stalin is not as Slavko Goldstein says (i.e. that Stalin steered away from crimes during the war). “In Stalin’s Gulag some 516,543 people died between 1941 and 1943, sentenced by the Soviets to labor, but deprived of food by way of German invasion. Were these people victims of Stalin or of Hitler? Or both? … Hitler was worse, because his regime propagated the unprecedented horror of the Holocaust, the attempt to eradicate an entire people on racial grounds. Yet Stalin was also worse, because his regime killed far, far more people—tens of millions, it was often claimed—in the endless wastes of the Gulag. For decades, and even today, this confidence about the difference between the two regimes—quality versus quantity—has set the ground rules for the politics of memory. Even historians of the Holocaust generally take for granted that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, thus placing themselves under greater pressure to stress the special character of the Holocaust, since this is what made the Nazi regime worse than the Stalinist one.” (Timothy Snyder, “Hitler vs. Stalin: Who was Worse?” 2011)
According to Slavko Goldstein, it transpires that victims of both totalitarian regimes must not be treated the same essentially because there’s a few years of time difference between the two mass slaughters, even if they all fall under the insignia of victims of totalitarian and authoritarian regimes 23 August has been designated to remember them all by.
Or, is Slavko Goldstein saying: victims of the communist regime are less valuable than victims of the Holocaust?
Why fear the equating of victims of Nazi and Communist regimes? Could it be that Goldstein fears that perpetrators of horror on both sides will be seen as equally brutal and beastly? History so far has more or less spared the communist regime from the harsh but utterly just destiny the Nazis had been put through after WWII.
Whether Goldstein, or those who are like-minded agree or not, the fact is that both of these totalitarian regimes were equally brutal and beastly, and if we count the number of victims as a measure of brutality then communism wins hands down. And this could very well be the root of Goldstein’s pathetic reasoning regarding the 23 of August.
“The 23rd August (1939) pact between Nazi Germany and Communist USSR opened the door towards the East for Hitler, but before then, on 30th September 1938, England and France had already opened that door with the Munich agreement which handed Czechoslovakia to Hitler. England and France share the guilt for 23rd August. So, that date is one of the milestones of the war and war crimes, but not their main symbol”, Goldstein argues in his interview.
But let’s call a spade, a spade! On reflection, the West and the Communist countries have always hated Adolf Hitler after WWII. Joseph Stalin, however, was once their favourite (in Yugoslavia Tito ditched him in 1948 and became himself a certain favourite during the years of the Cold war). Only in recent couple of decades, especially, has Stalin acquired some of the reproach and outrage once reserved for Adolf Hitler – and only half-heartedly. What is the explanation?
Could it be because some see Stalin’s crimes as committed on behalf of the Jews and Hitler’s crimes were committed against the Jews?
Joseph Stalin now enjoys a bad reputation. Tito’s should follow suit. But Stalin is never seen as bad as Adolf Hitler and ‘The Holocaust’. And certainly, it seems that Slavko Goldstein would want us to believe that.
Forty five million dead at the hands of Stalin (communist totalitarian regime across Europe while he was the head figure) cannot be compared with the recognised six million dead Jews across Europe, indeed! Discussion of numbers can blunt our sense of the horrific personal character of each killing and the irreducible tragedy of each death. The reality is that the difference between zero and one is infinity. Every single victim is as important as the other no matter at whose hands, how and when he/she became a victim.
To keep the appalling discrimination between victims of totalitarian regimes within the Goldstein family, Slavko with his historian son Ivo Goldstein published a book in 2011 “Jasenovac and Bleiburg Are Not The Same” (Jasenovac being the symbol of pro-Nazi killings in Croatia during WWII and Bleiburg being the symbol of Communist killings). In essence they consider “Jasenovac” crime of genocide and “Bleiburg” crime against humanity or war crime. Yet both of these crimes comprised of systematic killings and deaths attributed to communist crimes far outweigh those of pro-Nazi crimes!
“Holocaust scholars have criticized a growing tendency in central and eastern Europe to equate the Shoah (Holocaust) with Communist oppression, a trend which they consider ‘the gravest threat to preserving the memory of the Holocaust’ as it served to exculpate populations complicit in the extermination of their Jewish minorities, according to a report by the Israeli newspaper ‘Haaretz’. Professor Yehuda Bauer of the Hebrew University called equation attempts ‘campaigns to marginalize the Holocaust’,” said the World Jewish Congress in 2010 and concluded: “To be sure, no one can or should minimize the untold suffering caused by Communist tyranny, of which Jews were also victims, but common commemoration will only serve to disfigure memory and history.”
It would seem to me that the only disfigurement of memory and history is pursued by those who maintain that victims of the Holocaust should have a place of piety and justice above any place the victims of Communist crimes of the same totalitarian regimes era should have. Furthermore, insisting or suggesting that the victims of each of the totalitarian regimes should be remembered on different days only prolongs the abominable discrimination against victims of communism the world has been served with since WWII. Separating the two, as has been the case, will continue to feed the false impression, and perhaps conviction, that one criminal was better than the other, when in fact, and in terms of humanity – both regimes were regimes of murder and intolerance. Separating the two groups of victims also seems to leave an ever bitter taste that victims of the Nazi regime were perhaps more valuable human beings than the victims of the communist regimes. This of course should not be and must not be tolerated any longer. Ina Vukic, Prof. (Zgb); B.A., M.A.Ps. (Syd)
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This sort of outdated, bullshit logic is exactly the sort of thing that will see more tension and rifts created between different groups in Croatia. If we continue down this path of thinking that victims of communism are worth less than victims of Nazism, we are furthering their pain and the pain of their families and of course, causing resentment where there should not be any. No doubt, Jews did suffer in WWII, but they are not a special group of human beings who deserve pity and remembrance of their suffering while everyone else who suffered the same or similar fates, is just a second-rate problem, with their suffering somehow being lesser just because they are not Jews, or because they were not victims of Nazis. Totalitarian regimes which seek to oppress people due to their ethnicity, religion or socio-economic status are one and the same, no matter what names they use. The victims of such regimes all deserve respect and remembrance, they all cry for the truth to be known, so they can leave their pain behind. We’re all humans and we all suffer at the hands of anti-human regimes and when we seek to remember victims we cannot allow ourselves to continue this “them vs us” way of thinking, which only divides and weakens the good in humanity.
How can we give Nazi criminals actual lawful trials while pretending that the Bleiburg massacre is justified because it was done in an act of revenge? Why then, did the world not retaliate against Germans and massacre thousands upon thousands of them in retaliation? Why? Because justice matters and it matters how justice is carried out! To hold ourselves above war criminals and genocidal maniacs, we cannot employ the same tactics as they did, nor can we celebrate those that did nor can we justify attempts to rewrite the true extent of crimes! How can someone who is part of a group that suffered so horrifically at the hands of a totalitarian regime, ever even think of justifying the crimes of another totalitarian regime going by a different name? How can Slavko, not understand the scale of human suffering and value of life? What gives communists the right to decide which lives are worth less? You are not gods, get off your self-appointed throne!
RESPECTED FRIEND
To begin to understand a little better understanding of matter
At a time when Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the West ,
eastern borders of Europe, between the Caucasus and the Volga , has ruled the Jewish state , known as the Khazars , ” At the height of its power , from the seventh to the tenth century AD , this is the empire had a significant role in shaping the destiny of the medieval , and therefore contemporary Europe. Byzantine Emperor and historian , Constantine Porphyrogenitus ( 913-959 ) was aware of when the discussion about the court protocol noted that the letter to send to the Pope in Rome , and it is addressed to the Emperor of the West, wearing a gold seal worth two solids , while messages Khazar king adorned the seal of the three solids . This was not flattery , but Realpolitik . ” in the period that we do ,” Lisa Bari, ” probably in terms of the foreign policy of the Empire Khazar Khan was only slightly less important than Charlemagne and his successors . “Land of the Khazars , a people of Turkish origin , occupied a key strategic position in the passage of vital importance , which was located between the Black and Caspian Seas , the place where he faced the great eastern powers of the time. Represented a buffer zone that protected the Byzantines against attacks greedy barbarian tribes from the northern steppes – Bulgars , Magyars , and others, and later the Vikings and the Russians. But from the standpoint of Byzantine diplomacy and of European history is equal , if not even more important , the fact that the Khazar army stopped the Arab avalanche in its early , most widely – me aside and joined the Khazars . discouraged Byzantine troops pogazivši oath of allegiance given Justinian declared Vardan emperor named philippics .
But since philippics was in the hands of Hazara , the rebels Kagan had to pay a rich ransom for their new emperor. when the rebel army returned to Constantinople , Justinian and his son were executed , and philippics , hailed as a liberator , he sat on the throne. With whom will have a few years later , the deposed and blinded . This story shows how harsh at the time Hazari
influenced the fate of the Eastern Roman Empire , regardless of the role they played defensively Caucasian stronghold of Muslims. Vardan – philippics car which was produced by the Khazars , and Justinian’s reign of terror ended his brother in law , the Khazar Kagan . Danlop to quote : “It is not an exaggeration to say that at that time, Kagan practically able Greece empire to the new rulers. ”
With a chronological point of view, the next event should be the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism , around 740 year . But to make this significant event could be recognized as the true light , it is necessary to have at least a rough idea of the habits , customs and daily life Hazara before conversion. Unfortunately , there is no conclusive vivid eyewitness reports , as was Priskusov description of Attila’s court. We have only second-hand narratives and compilations by Byzantine and Arab chroniclers , which are rather rough and incomplete – except for the two exceptions to the first letter , ostensibly, by Khazar car of which will be discussed in the second chapter . Another travelogue Ibn Fadlan , shrewd Arab travelers who like Priskusa , was a member of a diplomatic mission , which is from one of the civilized court addressed barbarians from the north That court was the court of the caliph al Muqtadir , a diplomatic mission in Baghdad , through Persia and Bukhari traveled to the country with the Volga Bulgars . The official reason for this pompous expedition was to call the Bulgarian king who asked the Caliph ( a) to send him a teacher of faith to his people converted to Islam , and ( b) to build a fortress thanks to which they will be able to resist his supreme master, the king of the Khazars . That call – no doubt agreed
previous diplomatic contacts – was an opportunity and that, preaching the Koran and a large kickback in gold , cheer you up and to get various Turkish tribes that lived in the territories through which the mission should pass . Thus begins our passengers saying : “‘ This is a book of Ahmad ibn – Fadlan ibn al- Abbas , ibnRašida , ‘ ibn Hamad , officials in service ( General ) Muhammad ibn – Sulajman Ambassador ( kalifovog ) al Muktadirovog , addressed to the king of Bulgarians , where he talks about what he saw in the land of the Turks, the Hazara , Russians, Bulgarians , Bashkir and others, about their different religions , the history of their kings and their behavior in many areas of life.
Letter to the King of Bulgarians came to the commander pravovernih , al Muqtadir . In it, the king asked the caliph to send him someone who will refer it to the faith , to meet him with the laws iolama and build him camiju and pulpit in order to fulfill its mission , the conversion of the people around my country. Also, begged Caliph to build him a fortress that will defend it from enemy kings. ” All the king asked , Calif approved . I was elected to the king read kalifovu message , to deliver the gifts to the caliph and to supervise the work of teachers and interpreters of law … ( Here are some details on the financing of the mission and names of participants .) I so we started on Thursday 0.11 Safar year 309 (21 June 921 ) from the City of Peace ( Baghdad , the capital of the Caliphate ) . ” following quotes are based on the text from Arabic into German translated Valids Zeki Togan and English translation of excerpts that are
Blake made and Fry. Both translation paraphrased radn pain , eg
understanding. ” As the subsequent passage of the Emperor Hazara . Date of this expedition , to be noticed , much later than the events described in the previous section. But as far as customs and organization Khazar pagan neighbors , it probably does not change a lot of things. Matter how cursory a glimpse into the lives of nomadic tribes , we gain at least some idea of what it could be life Hazara during that earlier period – before conversion – while they were enthusiasts forms of shamanism , similar to that of their neighbors still followed at the time of Ibn Fadlan . journey was slow and uninteresting until the mission is due to Khwarizmi , border Caliphate province , south of the Aral Sea . Governor of the province tried to stop further movement of the mission, arguing that between his country and the Kingdom of Bulgarians live in thousands of disbelieving tribes that will surely kill them . In fact, his attempt to ignore kalifovo user to fail a mission , he was perhaps motivated by something else : he realized that the mission indirectly directed against
Hazara with whom he maintained a successful trade and friendly relations . In the end , however , he had to give in and allow the mission to extend the time Gurganja the mouth AmuDarije . There , because of fierce cold, which many Arab travelers attach great importance to their narration , the other to name three months :
” The river was frozen for three months and we are at the surroundings , thinking ahead to open the gates of hell ice . Saw that the winter market and the streets were completely deserted … Once, when I was returning from the bathroom came home , I noticed that my beard froze the snowball ice and I had to otkrave the fire . few days I spent in the house which was located inside the houses ( expensive house?) in which he was crucified in Turkey
čojani tent . I lay in the tent , wrapped in clothes and furs , but even so, my cheeks were often freezes on the pillow … ” In the mid in February he began to wind south . Mission joined the mighty caravan of 5,000 men and 3,000 draft animals to cross the northern steppes , and has acquired the necessary supplies : camels , boats made of camel skin to move
rivers , bread , millet and spiced meat for three months. natives are
alert them to the even scarier cold in the north and consulted them
what kind of clothes to wear , “So each of us donned kurtak ( singlet ) , woolen caftan over it , then buslin ( fur coats ) and burqa ( fur coat ) and krzneiu cap below that we just stuck out his eyes , an ordinary pair of lower pants , then one pair set , and over that pants , house slippers from kajmuta ( rough skin ) , and over n > them boots . and when one of us got on a camel , he was no longer able even to move from so many clothes. ” Iban Fadlan , Arab exquisite taste , they liked the climate , and even the people Khwarizmi ” http://www.4dportal.com/hr/zavjere/3245-rothschildi-kazari-illuminati-vremenska-crta
This is exactly the stumbling point. Towards the end of her article Prof. Vukic says: “Separating the two groups of victims also seems to leave an ever bitter taste that victims of Nazi regime were perhaps more valuable human beings than the victims of communist regimes”. Is she saying that the innocent and peaceful Jewish population in Europe were guilty of “something” (exactly what Hitler’s main thesis was) and therefore they deserved to die? Is she also saying that the equally innocent Serbian, Jewish and Romi populations in NDH and Bosnia were likewise “guilty” of some crimes and therefore they needed to be destroyed as well? DELETED AS OFFENSIVE ATTACK ON PERSON AND NATION
No Miroslav Antich I am not saying that at all – it’s your hatred of Croats that’s reading it that way and the fact that you omitted to mention that Croats were also murdered and executed in masses during WWII in same places and same political pursuits demonstrates that fact. What I am saying and that is blatantly clear is that all innocent victims regardless of their ethnicity and which WWII side/regime murdered them deserve the same level of justice and the same respect.
(quote) Separating the two groups of victims also seems to leave an ever bitter taste that victims of the Nazi regime were perhaps more valuable human beings than the victims of the communist regimes.
This is what the Jews have always wanted. They have for too long cried of the injustice done to them but never in my life have they come forward and defend those who perished along side of them or those who gave their life to defend and protect them.If we separate the two then we will always have to deal with the issue of just the Holocaust rather then joining as a voice for all victims of that era and the Jews will never allow that to happen. Jewish blood is no more valuable then Croatian blood or any other blood spilled during war. In fact we should have a Croatian holocaust museum besides what we have in Ovcara to remember all of those in Croatia who gave their life to protect and defends not only Jews but all others during the war.All life is equal in war crimes and no one religion or ethnicity is more important then any other. This is something the Jews have never learned and we see it to this day with the Palestinians and the atrocity and human right violations that are perpetrated against them for the last 50 years.
“The Jews” is a pretty broad brush.
I suggest you read about the Israeli NGOs that regularly document IDF / Jewish security services violations of Palestinian rights, anti-Zionist organizations in the West (particularly in the US), and Jewish journalists inside and outside of Israel that harp on bad IDF and intelligence policy.
The recent documentary about the Mossad was an excoriation of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians since 1948, and the Mossad heads interviewed all called the policy bad and counterproductive, if not long-term suicide.
Not to mention Hungarian Holocaust Survivor Tom Lantos defending Croatia along with Bob Dole for years in the US Senate.
In terms of Jews in Croatia, one of Croatia’s greatest sons was a Jew – Amiel Shromney (Emil Schwartz). His father was a HSS member and anti-monarhofascist regime. His family was all but exterminated by Pavelic’s regime but he, and a fellow Serbian Jew that emigrated to Israel, Igor Primoratz, fought tooth and nail to debunk the genocidal hate speech spewed by Milosevic’s house Jew, Dr. Mandic, in Israeli media. Both defended Stepinac, and Tudman and Croatia for years. The HTV documentary on Shromney was great – unfortunately it has not aired since 2000, and we all know the reason why.
Vlado Singer, the leading intellectual of UHRO (until the feeble Pavelic allowed for his liquidation to appease that degenerate Horstenau, who was prancing around Zagreb the whole war as if he was King), was Jewish.
Andrija Hebrang is half Jewish (on his mother’s side no less) and was all for Croatia, as was Croatia’s first Finance Minister Nenad Porges (who, along with his Croatian Jewish organization spent years debunking Serb agitprop in the West and in Israel via letter writing), and last but certainly not least, Jakov Beninfeld publicy crapped and continues to crap on Goldstein and the Yugo-Commie sellouts in Croatia’s 5,000 member Jewish community.
Goldstein is an academic hack who never had a formal education and was pushed through by the party for his loyalty, not knowledge, which he has time and time again shown he has very little of. His English-version history of Croatia was one of the worst books I’ve ever read, and there were a handful (if memory serves me correctly, less than 7) footnotes, citations or in-text citations – just a long bibliography.
He is a product of the ancien regime whose days are numbered thanks to Germany and the EU.
His entire role in Yugoslavia and since was to guard the contradictory and false myths about the false God, Tito, and the sham “liberation” and the disastrous political-economy the one-party totalitarian, democracy repressing house of cards went head over heels into foreign debt for to keep the lie alive since the economy was garbage because of the economic model, and because of the Communists’ mismanagement.
Count down to Wednesday. I hope Perkovic has soap on a rope.
In terms of Goldstein, once dimentia sets in his arguments will be the same – incoherent babble and nonsense.
His time in this world is short and history will judge him for what he was and remained – a 2nd rate Commessar and 3rd rate propagandist and pseudo-historian with no respect outside of the Yugoslav ultranationalist-socialist circles of fmr. Sugoslavija. Another bug on the windshield of history.
Stalin didn’t kill en masse until later? W-T-F!? He was a hijacker, bank robber and terrorist attack planner and participant and the entire revolution was built on murder, mass murder, 1917 on.
Goldstein is yet another reason why we all have to thank Germany and the EU for putting on the pressure from the outside for real, meaningful changes on the inside.
Thanks again to Ina for pointing this out, and I’d like to congratulate Frano Budimlic for getting the never-ending strife in Croatia caused by the Yugoslav Communist bacteria into a widely read Libertarian / right of center online magazine: http://takimag.com/article/clearing_croatia_of_commies_frano_budimlic
Keep pushing the message on the web people!
Well, well said therealamericro. Thank you. Will now go into the Taki Magazine & Frano Budimilic’s article and read it – so much to do and so little time. Still, together, we manage to pull out the important pieces and threads.
I think we will know most of the truth in another ten or twenty years. As you say it won’t come easy. I’ve done a bit of studying on Adolf Eichmann. His trial is interesting for a number of reasons.
1. Is because Judge Landau really did “His best, his very best” as Arendt put it, to give Eichmann a fair trial and to do so with truthful evidence.
2. Eichmann was not an anti-Semite. But he was a fanatical German nationalist. Indeed, he tried to establish a homeland for the Jews in Palestine–which of course didn’t work for reasons it isn’t working today, the Arabs were opposed to the idea.
3. It’s clear from watching the trial and hearing about his apprehension that neither he nor anyone else knew what actually happened in the concentration camps. It was assumed by everyone, including Eichmann, that they were in fact extermination camps.
4. His treatment during captivity. He was not mistreated at all. Compare that to what my government did to Bradley Manning, with the knowledge of my president.
. . . etc, Eichmann’s story is a truly fascinating one.
Donald Miller, it’s a pity that Hannah Arendt’s works have not become mainstream but rather suppressed by many powerful that be – nevertheless there are still many for whom her wisdom provides fuel to pursue truth
Donald:
There was and always a remains a means for whistle blowing in the US. Even in those giant bureaucracies. Its just about getting someone to listen, it takes time, but it always works.
(s)He and the other one – whose moral compass led him to expose certain programs from the territory of the two largest and most powerful human rights violating and free speech suppressing nations on earth, both of whom are engaged in openly genocidal (Chechnya) and culturocidal (Tibet) campaigns against sovereign nation-states – decided not to follow them.
Shims’ leaks were used for propaganda purposes against the US. Take the helicopter video that all the fuss was about.
Front and center on the opening page. The big “score.”
The “smoking gun” if you will.
Conveniently edited from the raw, unedited video was the AK fire from several members of the crowd.
That is what they do – they cherry pick and draw hasty conclusion, heavily edit, and outright invent from their paranoid minds intent and or activities that, if weighing the entirety of the evidence, is precisely NOT what happened.
I am not saying I think Iraq (or invading Syria would be) a good idea; it turns out that the “smoking gun” was a fraud and the guy that was feeding the bad info was on a BBC documentary on intelligence in the modern age and admitted such. The occupation was stupid because it, by banning all Ba’ath party members in the beginning and not just the dirty-hands in the Mukhabarrat and military intelligence and counter-intelligence, ensured that Sunnis, who pretty much joined the Ba’ath party or were suspect the rest of their lives, would be excluded from government and guaranteed a terrorist uprising.
But George Jr. and Flyboy not learning from the German or Japanese occupation is not an excuse to sell out the Homeland. Nor is a massive military bureaucracy not functioning 100 percent right at all times. Mistakes in bureaucracies take time to fix, that is the nature of bureaucracies, especially the massive ones we are talking about.
The organization that I will not name because it deserves no recognition just “happens” to attack the US and West solely.
Its global band of proprietary information stealing self-annointed crusaders target the West, US in particular, exclusively.
When is the last time any Russian or Chicom government or military or diplomatic cables or servers were hacked by them? Never. When will they be hacked? Never.
The megalomaniac with a God complex runs an organization that is exclusively anti-American, and for all the wrong reasons. Offering a helping hand to him is an outrage.
I am a total, fanatical believer in free speech and online anonymity.
Stealing is not free speech, nor activism. It is stealing.
If Chicom and Ruski military / intelligence / diplomatic cables and servers get hacked I will gladly say I was wrong. But I doubt that will ever happen. We all know why.
The organization that doesn’t deserve to be named was and remains a new age subversive front in the bad guys’ long game. Same cold war model, but instead of sham NGO, an online cloud to confuse, cloud, and create chaos for the enemy, weaken him from within.
Unfortunately, they are winning on this front. Lets not lionize the collaborators.
Victims of communist violence should be valued as high, and their perpetrators should not continue being justified by any reasons, the abuse of Communists and Serbians of Croatians was the reason for some of the incidents that occurred, however only the motives of revenge of the communists are examined and understood? There were Croatian victims of Alexander the first and Tito, why do those ones not have a memorial, a museum? Did they not bleed as hard or was their incarceration not as relevant. Mercy and historical understanding should never be partial because that is what propagates hate.
Hopefully, Michelle R., the history will be revised and written to match the facts, that though does need a great deal of determination and persistence which, I believe will come one day
Dear Ina
It is hard to bring the truth when it seems there is an entire propaganda machine that the enemies of Croatia have used in the most opportunistic manner to ally with victims of other war crimes only in order to tarnish the reputation of the land that once saved their lives, as Croatian king Tomislav saved Serbia from being taken by Simeon. It is very tragic that one of the worst forms of suppression during communist times happened to Croatian history, literature and anything with a hint of national pride. I have visited many times Croatia and hope someday to help erect a monument to the victims of the communist atrocities, why are not they any? so many Croatians were killed even painters under the wrath of communism. Croatians are not racist people, they just love their land and mourn their death, why is that so hard to appreciate?.
Michelle R yes certainly the monuments to victims of communist crimes don’t really exist if we don’t count the plaques near mass graves and pits as monuments – certainly the monuments to communist partisans and victims of Nazism exist in grand designs – Tito made sure of that
It must be noted that Goldstein and many Yugo-apologists were against putting the small, barely noticable plaque up on the east side of Jelacic Square commemorating the December Victims, unarmed patriotic protesters demonstrating against the Serbian Army colonialist-occupation gendarmes and the declaration of the Kingdom of SCS by self-annointed “Croatian” representatives in the Yugoslav Committee, because they were “nationalists.”
Its not just Communist Yugoslavia whose history Goldstein & Co. defend, its the slave to Belgrade / Greater Serbians lobotomy-mentality they defend.
The Goldsteins HATE Croatia. Period. Full stop. Everything they have ever written is overflowing with misinformation.
Check out this video from Markov Trg, a program on OTV, in which Zvonko Busic debates Ivo Goldstein. You can clearly see who the actual patriot and intellectual is! Hint: it’s not the so-called ‘historicar.’
Thanks for the link Veronika
The tragedy today is that you can walk down the street in any western country and wear a hammer and sickle or pic of Che Guevera and you’re cool, but if you had a picture of Hitler or a swastika on your shirt, you would end up in jail. The Western elites to this day glorify communism, a system that has killed more than 100 million people worldwide. It is a system that is still killing people in places like North Korea and China, but no one flinches.
Re Croatia specifically, the governments since 1990 there should all be ashamed to allow the most beautiful square in Zagreb, in front of the National Theatre, to bear the butcher Tito’s name, for one thing. I don’t see too many squares named after Adolf abroad. People need to finally get out of their communist Yugo-nostaligic commas over there and learn the truth about Tito. Truth is freedom.
Re. Jasenovac (translation)
“If not for the decades-long repeating of the Jasenovac myth, neither Milosevic, his associates, and followers would not have been so easily manipulated and perhaps many lives would not have experienced the pain and suffering they have gone through in the wars,” says editor Ivan Miklenic, Voice of the Council newspaper.
Wow. You sure know your history. You remind me of Noam Chomsky. Every time I listen to a new interview with him, I learn something new.
What do you think of David Irving’s books? He has his books available for free download on his site, so I got “Hitler’s War” and “Churchill’s War.” Just began CW’s. Irving surprised me; his writing is exquisite. On the few lectures I’ve heard him give on YouTube, he seems too rough around the edges to be such a gifted writer.
Donald Miller – funny you should mention Noam Chomsky – perhaps his teachings in psycholinguistics in the seventies did actually rub off on me 🙂 Namely one of my university degree theses was on his work in that field and I thought he was a brilliant scholar in that field 🙂 Have not read much of David Irving (read some) – perhaps I did not agree with his stance as holocaust denier as he was labelled and did not bother delving deeper into his writings because of that. Denying the holocaust is quite repugnant to me personally. However, as the issue of communist crimes cover-up gained more ground and continues to gain ground perhaps we will see the communist crimes deniers suffer the same ostracism Irvin has been experiencing and then all cards will come to the table.
I wish those denying the atrocities of the communism would get a bit of the treatment that Irving has received. I admire your position very much.
Thank you Michelle R.
Not a bit of the dosage but the same dosage if not more because communists deserve utter condemnation and ostracism, Michelle R
inavukic said, “Denying the holocaust is quite repugnant to me personally.”
I didn’t make a further comment on the holocaust because I like inavukic and enjoy chatting with her, so it’s a touchy subject to deal with.
As time has gone by and I’ve learned (and noticed) more and more about how Zionists treat people, I can’t help but have a distaste for them and their methods. First standout for me was how they treated Hannah Arendt for her fair and impartial depiction of the trial of Adolf Eichmann. Then there’s the intense hatred that they have toward Noam Chomsky. I admire people who have the brass to speak what they believe to be the truth. I think David Irving falls into that category—not that he has the class of the other two people mentioned, but he does stand by his principles. I believe Irving to be a real historian; he doesn’t say something because he’s expected to, and he follows the evidence wherever it leads. Indeed, when he first published “Hitler’s War,” which took him thirteen years to write, he willingly took a loss of millions of dollars because he didn’t mention Auschwitz in the book. He lost “Book of the Month Club” publication and other coveted perks that writers long for.
On the other side of the issue is the credibility, and character, of his opponents.
As an aside, I’ll mention what Noam Chomsky says about his, and my, country the US. He refers to US foreign policy leading it to become “the US is a violent military state . . . [which] uses the Mafia Principle.” Yesterday, September 11, 2013, Noam made a scathing rebuke of US conduct in a forty minute interview on Democracy Now, which can be viewed on YouTube. Now, this is important because the US depicts itself as the beacon of human rights and freedom for the world. It’s also something that if you’re a US citizen, like me, you hear so often that it becomes ingrained in your way of thinking. It takes a significant dose of critical thinking to relinquish that and accept the facts for what they are—although I must say that with Manning and Snowden’s revelations along with the Iraq War, it’s becoming easier by the day for the US population to realize that the propaganda it’s been fed is nonsense.
This leads me to the assertions that the Zionists make and their self-serving interests. It’s a known fact that on 9/11 “Dancing Israelis” were looking at and celebrating the attack as it unfolded. Some conspiracy theorists say that indicates Israel knew about the attack before hand and didn’t let the US know about it. I myself think this is unlikely. But what I do think is that ultra-nationalists, like the Mossad agents would be happy about the attack because it would be in their interests that it happened. Indeed, it’s been said that the first thing Netanyahu said when told about the attack it, “That’s good. I mean it’s bad. But it’s good for us.”
So when I see a blatant nationalist agenda being propagated consistently for a long period of time, I begin to smell a rat. The depiction of Adolf Eichmann for instance is a standout. He’s always depicted in film as a crazed anti-Semite, something which he wasn’t. (Yale OCW “The Moral Foundations of Politics” lecture two by Professor Ian Shapiro). In the lead up to Eichmann’s trial someone sent a letter to the prosecutors stating that “I saw Eichmann shoot a baby.” They knew this was absurd rubbish, so it was dismissed as such and dismissed immediately. But that didn’t prevent the makers of the film “Eichmann” from using it in their film. There’s a very long list of this sort of thing. I watched the first half-hour of a series called “Hitler: A Portrait of Evil” that showed Hitler in WWI owning a dog, which is true. But in the film, he didn’t have the dog for companionship; he kept it for the purpose of beating it—that’s as far as I made it into that “biography.”
It has become a sort of description of “holocaust denial” that anyone who questions whether the concentration camps were used as extermination camps through the use of gassing is a holocaust denier. There are a number of credible videos on YouTube that for all practical purposes prove that these camps were not used explicitly for extermination purposes. However, no rational person could deny the fact that there was incredible suffering and much death in a slave labor camp. I saw a list of figures made by holocaust believers, and even with the highest estimates they could make, there were 5.1 million Jews killed by the Nazis. Yet, they rounded this number up to six million—and if anyone has the audacity to say anything other than six million, they’re in for some heavy duty persecution.
The people making these claims are also the ones who have their own concentration camps, where the inmates are treated much like the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. I believe the Gaza Strip is the most densely populated area on earth. Combining these things together—along with many others—is it any wonder that someone might be skeptical about conventional history—much of which was contrived by the Soviet Union early on for propaganda purposes.
In short, although it’s no doubt too late to say that 🙂 the history of World War Two is still being verified, and not in a small part thanks to folks like David Irving, who does his own archival research and doesn’t rely on compiling what other “historians” have written. This is a dismal practice that seems to be all-too-prevalent these days. I could be a historian as far as that goes. All I’d need to do is lift “facts” from other people’s books and write one in my own style. It would be a book written in my voice, and that’s fine—but would I have added anything to historical research and details? No.
A good video to watch and think about is “Examining the Evidence of the Holocaust” on YouTube.
Donald Miller, thank you on this comprehensive comment and what you say falls within logic and close to the truth – i.e. that Holocaust was not the only evil of persecution that occurred during WWII and indeed after it. I belong to the “Baby Boomer” generation which has been fed with WWII history defined by the Holocaust as the only human horror and indeed, somehow – under political covers and self interest of history writers and their protégés, a certain fear has been drummed into the bones of humanity which basically spelled doom and ostracizing of those who question the veracity of the history written or, rather, fed to the world. This fear has been made easier to implement by the fact that communists were permitted by the same Western historians to cover up their own horrendous deeds against humanity and I dare say that the communists were on a mission to paint the Holocaust blacker than black. These days, anyone who is brave enough to question the history on record is called a revisionist. I believe the “Nazi hunters” have been the ones to use that phrase mostly, even when referring to communist crimes to them these were justified! To me, revision of history is absolutely essential if humanity is to be what it pretends to be. Bringing out the WWII history truth is not an easy task – not by a long shot. And I agree people like Irving who do their own research are very important in this process – it’s the dedication that this requires that deserves great credit. There is no doubt that Holocaust occurred – the numbers of victims and the manner by which they perished are not important to me because even one is too many. I do believe that once the extent of communist crimes gains more steam we will also see a revision of the Holocaust details and its comparative significance in the overall human suffering. The way things have been is that only the Holocaust victims have been treated as valuable human beings lost and the much greater number of innocent people that perished under communist purges have been treated as unworthy human beings. That tells us, and we have matured in age and wisdom, especially having the benefit of a fairer younger generation in our midst, that history has been written for political and material gains of “selected few”. And that, like any other false foundation, cannot sustain itself forever.
When I wrote the reply yesterday, I went to YouTube to verify some of the information. I had already seen the videos but there was a comment that Noam made that I wanted to get right and another fact on the other video. While I was on YouTube I happened to see The Last Days of The Big Lie (full). The video is two hours long and a bit slow in several places, but it’s worth seeing just because of the blatant and intentional lies told on it—and re-told in a documentary for which Steven Spielberg won an Academy Award, all the while knowing what he was telling was a pack of lies. The video methodically deconstructs the stories. The first one was so patently obvious it was a lie that I although sickened by the lies, nearly broke out laughing at the absurdity of the story.
There’s another video; one that is unrelated, but nevertheless gets across the same point in a very concise way.
Thank you on this Donald Miller, will make sure I watch that movie on Youtube…I am not surprised at the lies told, the frustration is in the fact that lies told often enough become the truth for many and to correct those “truths” is a mammoth task.
Nice job, it’s an incredible post. The details is good to learn!
Thank you Maria
I wish I had a bit to offer about the territories and countries your blog is about. In that regard, I know as much as most Americans, which is for all practical purposes, nothing. I do know a bit more about historian in general than my fellow countrymen, but not much about the former Yugoslavia, which I do know was an artificial country sewn together by the powers that be (or what was left of them) after WWI.
Ironically, and I’m not positive about this, but I believe it’s correct, of all the people within German conquered territories, the Serbs were the greatest victims of genocide. It just seems to me a somewhat distasteful fact that the Jews took whatever attempts at genocide that occurred during the Nazi era and made it all about them. I doubt most people know about other groups like the Serbs–I didn’t until recently.
A great source of information is simply listening to Noam Chomsky. He’s 84 and still sharp as a tack. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of world affairs in his head. (I do remember you mentioning doing an important paper in college about Mr. Chomsky. I didn’t know it was about linguistics though. I’m interested in him as a dissident. I really love the guy. He’s my hero.)
Donald Miller, it seems you know enough enough about how Yugoslavia was created to give you a perspective as to why most of its constituent states never felt comfortable with it, but Serb domination kept it together for longer than it deserved to survive when it comes to freedom and self-determination of nations within it. The blood ties, although distant but a tie nevertheless, with the British crown hold the roots of the misery imposed upon many people there including Croatia. Whenever one reads of how Yugoslav Kingdom started after WWI one reads how Croatian Parliament voted to join it but the truth is far from that, a group of citizens with the blessing of Serb monarchy and British & Allies formed a Council which acted outside the parliament and joined Croatia to that Kingdom – Croatian parliament never ratified that union. Yes many Serbs were killed in WWII by forces that were allied with the Axis and that is recognised, but what is not recognised in the mainstream is that Serbia was one of the first countries in Europe to declare a “Jew free” by May 1942. By May 1942 94% Jews in Serbia had been exterminated by the regime of Serbia’s Prime Minister Milan Nedic and what you will read in published works mostly is that the occupying German forces exterminated those Jews, which of course is not true as the Serbs loyal to Milan Nedic brought the Jews for slaughter. Tito of former Yugoslavia made sure that Croatia within former Yugoslavia was made responsible for extermination of Jews in that region of Yugoslavia and Serbia has even to today managed to escape any blame! Ones mind boggles at the thought that Stalin’s judges sat on Nuremberg trials! The same judges from the regime that was slaughtering and purging millions at the same time! And how strong the lies about Croatia continue can be stands in recent developments regarding Cardinal Stepinac who was convicted as Nazi-collaborator by communists after WWII – dr Esther Gitman’s research of documentation and evidence banned during the Yugoslav years and archives made accessible during 1990’s clearly show that he saved Jews in Croatia etc, she wrote a book (When Courage Prevailed/link to it on my page) – and yet those in whose political interests it is to persist with lies still do and have not corrected their statements about him. It seems to me that to live a lie is much easier for many than to face the truth – the fact that about 850 mass graves from communist crimes in Croatia uncovered don’t bother many nor awaken any sense or urge for justice for victims … as you say the next ten or twenty years the truth will surface but till then much work is still to be done. I would love the day when those who make up history are brought to account.
A fascinating reply. I didn’t know much of that. Although I have come to realize that much of history is lies. Thucydides seems to have done a great job, but that was twenty-three hundred years ago.
Honestly, from what I know, generally speaking, the Serbs are a very bad bunch. As you know, we can thank them for getting the dominoes falling that lead to World War One. Only five guys in The Black Hand group, but it only takes a few SOBs to cause great harm.
What’s called “holocaust denial” isn’t really that. Irving for instance, says “They killed them [the Jews] by the millions on the front lines.” From what I’ve seen, there is no evidence of gas chambers used to kill people. Indeed, all the evidence points against it.
However, having watched much of the Eichmann Trial, I’m convinced that even he thought there were gas chambers. I don’t believe he was ever actually in Auschwitz. He tried to get a Jewish friend out, without any success–AND he very efficiently sent many Jews to those camps. That alone as Judge Landau said was enough to merit his execution, seeing as he was “involved in it for years.”
I made a comment earlier about the importance of upholding minority rights. Still, after having thought about it, why do the Serbs live in Croatia if they don’t want to be a part of it? That seems strange to me.
What with me being an American, it’s difficult for me to understand these long-standing hatreds that last for centuries. The US being such a young country doesn’t have that ingrained in its psyche.