Franjo Tudjman Photo: http://www.tudjman.hr
It’s a real shame that someone at BBC doesn’t think twice and actually stops someone else (or self) at BBC from publishing lies, half-truths or perversions of truth about Croatia (in the context of former Yugoslavia particularly). But then again, such material is evidently tailored to deceive and maintain afloat a certain negative (or even repulsive) reputation created about someone (in this case about Franjo Tudjman) or something (in this case about Croatia), which is in human terms – in reality – just as positive and acceptable as things about those who write or publish the perversions.
Well, let’s, for now, not dwell too much on the fact that BBC Timeline on Croatia continues to pervert the truth about Croatia and keeps peddling to the world that in “1918 – Croatian national assembly votes to join the new Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes on the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire”. WITHOUT ALERTING the public to the fact that there EXISTED the Croatian Parliament at the time, which NEVER ratified the National Council’s decision/vote. BBC would like the world to think that Croatian National Assembly stood for Croatian Parliament!
Well, it did not!
And, it was NOT an Assembly but a Council. There is a huge difference between the two. An Assembly is like a Parliament and a Council is like a Committee.
I’m quite certain that I am not the only person who had alerted the BBC editorial that Croatian Parliament never ratified any decision about Croatia joining the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes in 1918. If BBC is not inclined to take on board or pay due attention to what individuals from the public might write to it about the issue, then I would expect it to do its own research. A mere visit to the Croatian Parliament website would have supplied the truth: “…the Parliament, however, had never ratified (confirmed) Croatia’s entry into a state union with the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro.”
Indeed, in December 1918, there were strong opponents among members of Croatian Parliament to the tyranny of the Croatian National Council and its undemocratic decision for Croatia to join the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. Such criticisms and opposition saw, for example, Vladimir Prelog, member of Croatian Parliament at the time, thrown in prison for a year by “Belgrade” – without a court hearing or any due process of justice.
BBC could at least say that Croatia was forced into joining the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, since it’s so keen to write about the Kingdom of the British King George the Sixth’s cousin.
Croatian National Council was established on 5–8 October 1918 in Zagreb. The Council declared itself a political representative body of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs living in Croatia-Slavonia, Fiume, Dalmatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Istria … The Council established its own Central Committee and Presidency (filled with pro-Yugoslav individuals) and it operated with its agenda in concert with “Belgrade”/ Serbian King, regardless of the fact that a full Croatian Parliament existed!
So, I say to BBC’s Timeline of Croatia: “A half-truth is the most cowardly of lies!” (Pietro Aretino)
And now, journalist and writer Tim Judah (who, “coined” the ridiculous and wild word/concept “Yugosphere“) has, with his latest article, fortified the senseless but evident hatred BBC seems to harbour against Croatia’s first President Franjo Tudjman. The perversions of truth about Tudjman have not abated even after the ICTY Appeal Chamber acquitted in November 2012 Croatian Generals Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markac of “Joint Criminal Enterprise” (against Serbs in Croatia), in which alleged war crimes Tudjman was also named by the ICTY Trial Chamber.
Tim Judah, who calls himself a “Balkans analyst” (!) has just written a piece for BBC “Croatia: From isolation to EU Membership” in which he offers no analysis, just superficial gargle designed to throw hateful aspersions against Franjo Tudjman – once again.
“Mr Sanader also brought Serbs into his government, something unimaginable in the Tudjman years,” Judah writes (as in the first version of this article at the time of my publication of this post 23 April 2013).
How cruel can the journalist be! How cruel can the BBC be for allowing such hateful garbage.
For the record of truth: there were Serbs in Croatia’s government during the Tudjman years. For example, Zivko Juzbasic was a Minister between July 1991 and May 1992. As for the Croatian Parliament, Serb People’s Party had three members of parliament between 1992 and 1995, with Milan Dukic serving as deputy Speaker as well as assistant minister of interior and served as advisor to Tudjman.
The mind reels with anger amidst such hateful gargle and from Tim Judah and the BBC (who published Tim Judah’s article).
As any truth respecting person would, I complained to BBC regarding the untruths in Tim Judah’s article and alerting them to the fact that there were Serbs in Croatian government during the times of Tudjman. I did receive a reply from BBC and it seems now that Tim Judah has his own opinion as to the credibility of those Serbs who were in the Croatian government during Tudjman’s times. BBC has, 26 April 2013, changed the sentence in the article to this:
“Mr Sanader also brought Serbs with political credibility and clout into his government, something unimaginable in the Tudjman years.”
I wonder what Judah’s definition of “Serb” political credibility and “Serb” clout is!? No doubt, I will be visiting this issue soon on this blog.
“The best ammunition against lies is the truth, there is no ammunition against gossip. It is like a fog and the clear wind blows it away and the sun burns it off,” Ernest Hemingway once said. And so, in the light of all of the above I was compelled to write this post. For truth’s sake. Ina Vukic, Prof. (Zgb); B.A., M.A.Ps. (Syd)
Related post: Timeline Croatia: Back to a-b-c with BBC
Timeline Croatia/ comparison with BBC’s one can be accessed via the link on the right hand margin of this website (under the photograph of Korcula)
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Excellent observations Ina. Unfortunately, Croatia holds deuces and treys when it comes to the media game, which makes it very difficult to win the public opinion arena. All we have on our side is wits and the occasional bluff, despite and regardless of how much truth is on our side. Franjo Tudjman also started out with deuces and treys, but used his wits and his prowess to trade those cards in and in the end be left with aces and kings, but people like him don’t come along very often. I think many, including the Brits, are afraid of men like Franjo overshadowing their own “heroes”, men who were dealt aces and kings right out of the shuffle. And these ‘heroes’ only managed to maintain the winning hand that they started out with. Our Franjo outplayed them all!
Hear, hear – Brankec!
Reblogged this on Croatia Business Report.
Many do it by stealth! Cowards do it by stealth. Cannot handle the truth for their bias and hatreds are so ingrained in them. The envy Tudjman must be riveting into them …very amusing! So proud of Tudjman!
BBC and Judah – what a pair! I shudder at the lies, I revel at the truth
Well said Ina. BBC is about as trashy and uneducated as the ‘Yu’ media in Cro
From Facebook: The BBC make a habit of this sort of thing. Their coverage of Israel is nothing short of anti-Semitic.
From Facebook: Pa Englezi i njihova burza određuje dosta toga na balkanu a o diplimaciji njihovoj ne treba trošiti riječi koja uporno s velikom dozom perfidnosti i uz potporu medija ubija istinu posebno onu o bleiburgu zbog koje je onaj ruski pisac samo zato jer se usudio početi ne pisati nego “misliti” o tom završio bez skoro svega. BBC je 70-tih sjeme zla zasijao kad je počeo snimati serijal o svetom gralu i poticati priču kako je Isus Krist iz Nazareta imao djecu itd….Osnova za to im je bio neki luđak tamo iz Francuske koji je sve izmislio. Lavina je pokrenuta jer su nas desetljećima ubijali u pojam mitovima i legendama te vrste (de brown kod itd). A nitko nije niti zabilježio valjano da se francusko sudstvo pokrenulo na poticaj Katoličke Crkve jedva jedvice i na koncu je taj mahnitov priznao ipak da je sve slagao i sud je presudio u korist Crkve. BBC se ispricao toliko destljeća iza ali koja fajda kad su evo 40 gina i više ubacili bubu u uši ljudima a mnogi su nasjeli. Ne razumijem zašto se naša dijaspora posebno ona preko velike bare a brojna je i odlično organizirana malo ne pokrene stvari samostalnije i izvan okvira tog puritansko-jevrejskog lobija koji je naslonjen na petra kralja na jugoslavene titove itd. Američki narod je vodio pravedan rat za samostalnost od ugnjetavanja britanske krune. Ima tamo jak židovski lobij koji je neopterećen od ovog tzv jevrejskog koji hrvate unaprijed definira kao fašiste. Pa razapeli su naše nogometaše na zračnoj luci po londonu zbog pobjede športske onda. I ne treba pustiti da se zataška istina. Također nedavno je Bob Dylan ispalio takav šovinizam, fašizam i gluspost prema jednom narodu da je naprosto gotovo zadivljujuća ta mirnoća tog istog naroda na to. Nitko ni zuc ni muc. A židovima se divim jer su žilava nacija i bistri ljudi s tradicijom koja nam je zajednička i treba ih poštovati u punoj mjeri ali mnoge stvari se brkaju jer ovdje je loše ispisana povijest netočno i na temelju laži. Kad je laž u temelju nečega prije ili kasnije to mora doć do urušavanja!
Translation of Dalibor Zovko comment: Well, the English and their lot set a lot of things on the Balkan and there is no need to waste words on their dilpomacy, which kills the truth with a large dose of perfidy and media support, especially the truth about Bleiburg, because of which that Russian writer ended up losing almost everything as he even started to “think” like he wrote. BBC sowed the seed of evil when it strated filming a series about the Holy Grail and initiated the story how Jesus Christ had children etc…their basis was some madman from France who made up the whole story…BBC apologised years later but what’s the use of that when for more than 40 years they insreted a bug into people’s ears, and many ended up believing the story. I don’t understand why our diaspora, especially the one across the large pond, large in numbers and organised, doesn’t initiate things more independently and outside that puritan-Jewish lobby which leans towards King Peter and Yugoslav Titoists etc. American people led a just war of independence against the oppression of the British crown. There is, hence, a strong Jewish lobby which is not burdened with the so-called Jewish who in advance label Croatians as fascists. Well, they crucified our football players at the airport for winning. And the truth should not be covered up. Also, recently Bob Dylan came out with such chauvinistic, fascist attacks and stupidity against a nation, it’s almost praiseworthy how that nation remained calm at that. No one uttered a sound or a word. I admire Jews because they are a strong nation and clever people with traditions that we share and they need to be respected in full sense but lots of things get confused because there is the badly and incorrectly written history, on basis of lies. When a lie is the basis of something, sooner or later it will crumble!
To my knowledge, there was a deal between England, Serbia and Italy in 1915., in Croatia known as “secret London agreement”, in which Croatia was divided and one part was given to Italy, another to Serbia. Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Republic of Yugoslavia, all those were forms of Greater Serbia. And they ended in 90’s, with Homeland war. But this is hardly understandable to outlanders…
There is a great deal to be discussed in hind side, about Franjo Tudjman’s policies.
Open discussion is a good thing.
Open discussions are a good thing, EPO, but telling lies is not.
Why don’t you start a discussion about the Holocaust by saying it didn’t happen?See where it gets you.
No, why on earth would we do that? This website is about the truth.
I was replaying to EPO.I thought it would be a nice comparisment.You can’t call lying a discussion.People call that propaganda.
ALL WORK IS defending the truth
It can not be invoked any provision of this protocol to compromise the sovereignty of the state or government accountability to all lawful means maintained or re-establish law and order in the State or to defend the national unity and territorial integrity of the state! Failure to comply with international law! Instead Croatian jurisprudence prior to and to be the basis of the whole set of the Academy – not a word about it! True scientists should study the springs, not manuals! Let’s look at how it should be defended his waist, and not to use it so distorted interpretations and ensure the presidential chair. U.S. General Walter Huffman, a former warrior who has the experience of Vietnam and Desert Storm, and the best military lawyer in the United States sharply criticized the Hague due to non-final General Ante Gotovina who was sentenced to 24 years in prison. The first instance verdict shocked Major General Hauffmana who wrote in detail with which all disagree and why it considers there is no reasonable cause to excessive shelling of Knin. Opinion expressed in the 52-page article in the Military Law Review saying Hague to reject the verdict in the case against Croatian generals Hauffman holds that the possible establishment of the judgment Gotovina to open a number of problems for the liberation operations in future wars, conflicts and peacekeeping missions around the world. Concludes that the Hague tribunal goes beyond the permitted his role of an international court. The Court writes Hauffman, sends a message to all future wars civilians be transferred closer to the battlefield, and will not be able to use artillery, and these are said, the decisions even more threatened people.
– If the legal provisions on the protection of civilians is unrealistic, or if she can not spend, civilians will simply be discarded or used as a shield and thereby put at greater risk – Hauffman wrote in an article published in Military Law Review. We mention that Hauffman was one of the experts from the U.S., Canada and Britain, who are about to write to the Tribunal! It can be seen that the protection of the meaning of this profession, as well as the intervention of the military legal experts. Our should be the protection of Croatian national interests and profession. The impression is that in our in-game only to protect their own interests, is not it? We have accepted our reacting just that – not the state or the nation, but the Balkan tribe. And for a tribe there, so be it and the Balkan, not worth what it’s worth for a country, right? Would some states actually allow the definition of so-funny way. excessive shelling of Knin and those stories about the artillery logs. Foreign experts have finally had to point out that there was a high professionalism of the Croatian army, not the Croatian state (not to mention the Balkan tribe Croats). Would a country really let the last search “alternative forms of accountability.” In other words, when they realized that they had all the “evidence” in the trial collapsed, subsequently seeking anything – beyond all legal norms – because obviously, as Bishop notes, they want at all costs to condemn the innocent. Ashamed ourselves when we see a stranger seems more for our veterans than ourselves? Thus, the Australian historian Mishka Gora published novel “Fragments of War” about the war in Croatia and paid him blessed Stepinac and Gotovina: It is auspicious date for the presentation of my book about the war in Croatia, because that day the former Pope John Paul II. dedicated to Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac finding him beatified. I thoroughly studied Stepinac life and I know that the communists proclaimed Nazi collaborator, despite irrefutable evidence to the contrary. As a historian, I am familiar with the fact that Stepinac was one of the few personalities in Europe who have raised their voice against Nazism, and this at a time when it was life threatening to do it … this book, along with Stepinac, sanctify and general Ante Gotovina who is Storm liberated Croatia, and slandered as a Cardinal. This time, the international community, that the Court in The Hague, where he was convicted of war crimes, and prevent the criminal Ratko Mladic to Bihac converted into a new Srebrenica. It seems to me that, when it comes to Croatian history, the truth is often elusive.
Bravo Ina, one good thing about BBC is that they are no longer available on our local programing. It is a pay for view and we would never pay to view trash!
Dubrovniklady, that’s the beauty of individual choice not to be exposed to rubbish, as for common good – we continue to be vigilant
the pro and cons are like see saws of latent articulation of status quo…much of media is fiction at best and most nowadays subscribe to google ,youtube, facebook et al ….there are battles still raging and gives rise to much disinformation …No myths or story telling will ever outlive the truth that dwelled in Croatia’s struggle for independence and freedom. Dr.Tudjman will always be revered in Croatia’s truth repository.
Too right, Alis Jacob
The British have never been friends of Croatia. We see this time and time again.They have always lied about Croatia and never did anything to intervene in homeland war until after the United States decided to intervene. The British in my opinion are nothing more then loud mouth braggarts that are not worthy of being called friends to Croatia.For a country to allow the Serbs to blow a dam that would have killed thousands of people show they have no morals or respect for Croatia and this is something we should never forgive or forget.They not only lie but insult Croatia at every chance they can.As an example a couple of months ago they stated : we want Croats to come to England to be our farmers and work their fields as if we are some kind of slaves.We are not peasants. Even worse when they come to Croatia for a vacation they bring with them their rudeness and arrogance not to mention their perversion and filth.They need to be looked down and frowned upon when they are in our country.
There are exceptions, Michael, I’m certain you mean that. There were and are Britons who have been and are friends of Croatia – of truth – but unfortunately when you get a strong component such as BBC’s slants, then all suffer of being stigmatised as spreading hateful untruths or half-truths designed to confuse.
If the BBC article included false or misleading information, can the Journalist and BBC be taken to Court for damages? If so, then they should be sued.
My thoughts exactly, Sunman.
We should not confuse “Britain” with the BBC. It is and always has been the most trusted world-wide broadcaster. You may think that isn’t saying much much compared to anyone else but I’d believe them first. I don’t know of a broadcaster less under the influence of the national government than the BBC. You don’t have to agree with them but who would trust more… HRT? CNN? RT?
It was the BBC’s “Panorama” programme who raised the profile of Tolstoy;s defeat in the courts against MacMillan and Low by suggesting that Tolstoy was right. MacMillan was already dead and Low (Lord Aldington) lived out his life in public disgrace – the BBC did that.
Pavao, in this case it’s not a matter of trusting the BBC in general, it’s about the untruths it published and when it comes to Croatia it has not been neither realistic nor duly kind.
I’ve heard it often said that Tudjman was an authoritarian and that statement is mostly followed by the only being one president (from Turkey) to attend his funeral. I cannot seem to find any real evidence or analysis or anything really that gives reasons to why it is stated that he was considered by mainly the west as authoritarian. It’s almost as if he did something (Operation Storm perhaps?) that they didn’t like (we all know how people like Carl Bildt felt) so overnight (after Dayton)dubbed him as such and the media blindly just played follow the leader (because when it comes the “Balkans” they rarely care to find out what is true and what is bull as long as it is a good story).
Tim Judah is like a guy who thinks he knows everything about the people of former Yugoslavia and in his book History, Myth and the destruction of Yugoslavia he goes into Who are the Serbs? Branded by some as Europe’s new Nazis, they are seen by others—and by themselves—as the innocent victims of nationalist aggression and of an implacably hostile world media. In this challenging new book, Timothy Judah, who covered the war years in former Yugoslavia for the London Times and the Economist, argues that neither is true. Exploring the Serbian nation from the great epics of its past to the battlefields of Bosnia and the backstreets of Kosovo, he sets the fate of the Serbs within the story of their past. Judah falls among those who seems to think that history justifies today’s heinous crimes and genocide, or at least in a backhanded way tries to put a bug in our minds that what Serbs did in their aggression against Croatia and Serbia is perhaps not so bad.
Just because he reported on the 1990’s war for the London Times and the Economist he might think he is a pro – far from it. Ina, your example from his article for BBC above demonstrates so well how unprofessional Tim Judah is. His evident dislike for Tudjman clouds his judgment which should be unbiased.
Not a fan of Tim Judah, not a fan of BBC.
A pathetic excuse for journalism. Good on you, Ina. It’s the seemingly “little”things within larger texts that usually hide the nasty! You found it in this case – great attention to detail.
Crappy Town says: ” Take Tim Judah, for example, a reporter from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s, but who is better known for his Balkan-themed works of dilettante, bubblegum history, which won him a wholly undeserved reputation for balance and sobriety on the account his fare was 2% less toxic than the poison served up by his still more successful colleagues, the likes of Christine Amanpour and Ed Vulliamy. Judah’s beloved EU is in trouble, and it shows”
http://www.crappytown.com/2012/10/tim-judah-out-nonsenses-himself.html
Since we are all of a different generations we very often rely on history books to let us know what actually happened in 1918. Therefore, let us examine A History of Croatia, by Stephen Gazi, who was professor of European history at Black Hills State College in Dakota (he graduated from a few universities including Zagreb) .Let me quote verbatim his statement on page 264. ‘On October 29, (1918) on the initiative of the National Council, the Sabor held its last session, debating and voting on the Council’s motion. It urgently demanded that: 1 Kingdom of Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia sever all relations with Austria and Hungary and 2 proclaim complete independence in the form of a common sovereign State of Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs……….
The Sabor voted for the motion without dissent (Stjepan Radic’s objection was not mentioned) and proceed to transfer all its prerogatives to the National Council.’
Very limited number of Hrvats (instead derogatory reference in Latin – given to Hrvats by Italian clergy in 1102) are familiar with activities of Krsto Cviic, who was working for BBC as Croat representative and adviser to Margaret Thatcher for the Balkans. I suggest to those ill-informed individuals to read his obituary, which reveals that Cviic signed an open letter in 1993, addressed to (comrade until 1990) Tudjman asking him to resign as President of Croatia because he was aware of his secret dealings to carve Bosnia with Milosevic. There were some people in Croatia (namely ‘prvoborci’ responsible for a largest genocide at the end of WWII – Bleiburg), who denied such dealings, which surfaced in 1995 during celebration of 50th anniversary in London when Tudjman admitted that Milosevic is one of them to Paddy Ashdown.
Vladimir Orsag, many say that Stephen Gazi’s book is a book laced with deception, a book in which gigantic facts have been omitted … that’s probably why he titled it “A” (History of Croatia) and not “The” History of Croatia… It doesn’t at all investigate the behind-the-scenes conspirators who really killed this Radic…it doesn’t say that the Sabor (Parliament) never ratified or confirmed the vote or decision to join the Kingdom of Serb, Croats and Slovenes …
They like the negative.. Too sad isn’t it?
Love and Peace, Summer
Yes Summer, too sad indeed.
Reblogged this on Croatia Business Report.
RESPECTED FRIEN AND BEAUTIFUL WOMEN!
However, when our soldiers with them and all of us – our whole faithful and courageous Motherland – won victory over the enemy, it is not peace, began a new struggle: to be the world, who did not want our homeland or our victory, to prove that it is true that as we all know – because we have learned: that Croatia has suffered a terrible aggression and to break free. This struggle to prove the truth is still ongoing. Here, dear friends, is not it hypocritical and totally unfair to blame all of our homeland, the late President to all the foremost defenders of our generals, they are part of a “joint criminal enterprise”? So what happens now? Currently all await the final adjudication of this pseudo-court instead of the entire homeland unite and send a clear message that we do not allow distortion of the truth and we are all determined to defend our defenders. We should raise their voice to the heavens, to alert the entire globe because of the injustice that we should be applied. We, however, stand still, like lambs to the slaughter, to bloodthirsty wolves leaped our own, blood-paid freedom razgrabe and rend their sharp teeth and its unjust verdicts. If there was any justice, will give up these tailors truth and rid our generals. But it’s hard to believe – as they are doing this: if they can not prove “excessive shelling” and “joint criminal enterprise”, then look for “alternative forms” of responsibility, wanting at all costs so damn innocent! If there is no reason to find it! And we all do dumb watching and waiting for what will happen! And our Lord said, “Blessed are hunger and thirst after righteousness” (Mt 5:6) Our veterans are doing justice – that we as a nation have the right to freedom and their land without strangers Enslavement – were ready to die. And we? Are they worthy heirs if we dare not say what is right, not protest when we see injustice, nor speak out against the obvious distortions of the truth?
Sincerely
Postovana Gospodjo Ina Vukic,
Vrlo dobro i lijepo radite na rasvjetljavanju istine o Hrvatima, koji su prosli i jos uvijek prolaze kroz pogibeljne strahote, lazi i nepravdu, na cemu Vam se od srca zahvaljujemo.
Imamo jedno Otvoreno pismo za Mr. Vuka Jeremica, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon i His Excellency Judge Theodor Meron, The President of International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia, na Engleskom jeziku, ali nemamo njihove E-mail adrese!?
Ako se Pismo i Vama svidi, bilo bi nam drago ako bi ga stavii i na Vas Web?
Moje ime i E-mail addresu ne zelimo je publicirati javno.
Hvala uz srdacne pozdrave,
Friends of True Peace
Translation of comment by Bobo Mostarac – Respected M/s Vukic. You’re doing a very good and nice job with showing the truth of Croatians who have been and still do endure deathly suffering, lies and injustice, and we thank you on that from the bottom of our hearts. We have an open letter for Mr Vuk Jeremic, UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon and His Excellency Judge Theodor Meron, the President of International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia in English language but we don’t have their email addresses? If you also like the letter we would like it if you published it on your Web? I do not want to publish my name or my email address. Thank you and kind regards. Friends of True Peace.
REPLY: Dear Bobo Mostarac: Thank you on your comment and given the you say you have an open letter addressed to the people listed above I would suggest that you do send that letter to the people you are intending the letter for (Jeremic, Ki-moo and Meron). That is simply the right thing to do rather than expecting them to find the letter in the media, or not finding it at all. If you cannot find their emails or emails of their offices then you need to send the letter by post as addresses are publicly available etc. As to publishing the open letter on this web I certainly would consider it) Best regards
Remind me why you blocked my links to the US Holocaust Museum, Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum and Research Center, and the Simon Wiesenthal Center regarding the numbers of Serbs killed during the genocide of WWII (500,000 seems to be a consensus). If I remember correctly, it is because these professional, third-party holocaust museums do not “print the truth” (according to you).
Francis A, from memory, yes I said that the US Holocaust Museum and Research Center do not always print the facts and have not written in detail about the role Serbia and Serbs had in the Holocaust and Nazi collaboration, to provide links to website is a personal choice and means nothing as long as you provide the name of the institution the public can easily search it, which I have done. As to your figures of Serbs killed I can only comment that the consensus you talk about is only a conses and there are also other consensuses between other people and professionals. Obviously the facts have not been confirmed and that’s why consensuses exist.
Pondering the truth, the following is what is also found on the net, not this blog:
“The Serbian Ministry of Information, in conjuction with a nationalist ‘researcher’ Dr. Milan Bulajic and the Serbian Orthodox Church, took a leading role in propagating overly inflated figures of Serbian deaths at Jasenovac. For a vast majority of Serbs, maintaining a grossly exaggerated number of “500,000′ Jasenovac deaths” was absolutely central to their national self-identity. A high number ‘proved’ that Serbs were one of the ‘primary victims’ of the World War II, rather than Nazi collaborators (Chetniks) responsible for genocide over the Bosnian Muslim and Jewish population in the Second World War. Serbs conceal information that about 5,000 Bosnian Muslims died in the Jasenovac concentration camp.
According the United States Holocaust Museum (USHMM) in Washington, it is not true that 500,000 Serbs died at Jasenovac. The USHMM puts the figure between 45,000 and 52,000. However, the secret report of the Serbian (Yugoslav) state puts the final figure of Serbian victims of Jasenovac camp to 28,000 (this report was kept secret so Serbia could milk more money from Germany for reparations). Today, this Serbian-compiled “secret” report is public and can be purchased as a book in the store:
http://www.bosnjackiinstitut.org/home/sadrzaj/110
Serbs killed more than 70,000 Bosniak civilians in the Holocaust. Serbs extensively collaborated with Nazis in World War II. Serb General Draza Mihailovic and his Nazi-collaborationist Chetniks fought side by side with Germans (after 1941), committing genocide against Bosniaks and fighting anti-Fascist forces of Croatian anti-fascist leader Josip Broz Tito. Serbs hated Jews, so they hunted down Jews and killed them or turned them to German fascists for money. Serbs also kept thousands of Jewish women and children on the verge of starvation at the Sajmiste concentration camp (Germans delegated city of Belgrade to feed Jews, even though the camp was in Croatian part of puppet state, just across the River in Belgrade).
Source(s):
US Holocaust Memorial Museum, Bosnian Genocide network, Final Yugoslav Report on Jasenovac, Bosniak Institute in Sarajevo”
Please do not parse what the US Holocaust Museum website says. Yes, they say 45,000-52,000 Serbs were killed at Jasenovac alone, but it also says ( in the same article): …deleted
Francis A. please note this post you are commenting on is about Tim Judah’s and therefore BBC’s (who published Judah’s article) lies that there were no Serbs in Croatian government because Tudjman would not have it, when I alerted them that this was a lie they changed the article into saying that the Serbs who were in Croatian government in Tudjman times were not politically credible etc instead of apologising for the terrible attempt to vilify Tudjman, once again. Your comments have been about WWII and figures of Serbs killed in Croatia and Bosnia during the time, trying to push the US Holocaust Museum figures and consensuses. You do not speak of anyone killed by Serbs then …Please note I do not take consensus as fact because there are a number of consensuses on this issue and people have the right to choose which they will take a note of or not …US Holocaust Museum is not the only source of information about WWII but if anyone wants to search their pages they are welcome, I have done that myself many times, I have even written to them alerting them to inconsistencies etc on their pages – providing verifiable arguments … but of course to no results either way…
Ina, you had no problem keeping my text where I say that the US Holocaust Museum says 45,000-52,000 Serbs were killed at Jasenovac. You do however decide to delete and censor the latter half of my message, where it says that the US Holocaust Muesem website also states (on the very same page!) that 320,000-340,000 ethnic Serbs were killed in Croatia and Bosnia during WWII by the Ustashe authorities.
-“But men may construe things after their fashion, clean from the purpose of the things themselves”.
Francis A. – as I said, anyone who wants to believe estimates of numbers killed can look it up themselves. Your comments had little if anything to do with the post you commented on and therefore propagation of guess work or estimates or consensuses of some are varied enormously, almost unbelievably, depending on what or who has written them, is not what I or anyone should take lightly. Certainly it would be most interesting if some took the trouble and took “historians” or individuals who give figures of the dead to court, holding them to account, to actually prove the number of those killed in WWII. Hopefully that day will come too.
Official history in the former communist Yugoslavia claimed that 700,000 people were killed in the Jasenovac camp but the memorial’s historians have identified only 83,301 victims. Now a plaque at Jasenovac showing the names of 83,301 victims can be seen on the Croatian side, while the memorial on the Bosnian side continues to say that 700,000 people were killed. Then you have the problem that Jasenovac remained opened into 1948 – sources say – and Tito’s communists killed many in there too, but , oh gosh, God forbid that anti-Fascists who wrote history exposed any of that. US Holocaust Museum would do a much better job for justice if it took care and actually quoted the different estimates and there are quite a few, numbers of victims varying significantly. So, if I do not believe in estimates I do that because I do not take lightly the idea of victims. When numbers get played with, depending on writers’ political motives, that takes away quite a bit of respect for the victims, as well as from justice.
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Thank you Cristina, much appreciate your feedback
This is the “vertical” that judges and condemns us!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56292809