As I briefly commented in my last post the Independent Democratic Serb Party/SDSS in Vukovar has issues with Vukovar’s Local Government declaration of Vukovar as a place of special piety for its suffering under brutal Serb aggression in 1991 and declaring the Croatian and Latin script as its official language.
I now turn to some of those “issues” some Serbs of Vukovar have with the Vukovar’s Croats (victims and veterans of Homeland war). On Wednesday 6 November the president of the Independent Democratic Serb Party/SDSS in Vukovar Srdjan Milakovic appeared on TV Vinkovac program “Politics and Truth” and stated that his people would not be joining the procession to honour the victims of Vukovar on the 22nd anniversary of the fall of Vukovar 18 November because, he said, not all victims are honoured in that procession!
As things would appear here Milakovic considers that families, friends, wives, children, mothers, fathers, colleagues … of murdered victims should march side by side with the murderers, suspected murderers, rapists, suspected rapists, plunderers, ethnic cleansers – hand in hand as if nothing had happened!
While, in terms of humanity’s “forgive and forget” slogan, that may be a desirable albeit often far-fetched goal, it is certainly not a realistic one, especially not if in that procession you get to walk side by side with known or identified, but pardoned through political wheeling and dealing war criminals, walking freely, dishing out cynic’s glances.
But Milakovic does not stop there. He drives the sharp dagger further into the still inconsolable pain from the horrors of the war of Serb aggression and says: “the introduction of Cyrillic signage in Vukovar was not done to offend the emotions of Croats, but primarily for the reasons where members of the Serb minority would feel that they are welcome and equal in Vukovar, just as they were before 1991”.
There you go, right from the “horse’s mouth”: Introduction of Cyrillic in Vukovar had/has more to do with forced reconciliation, with shoving war crimes under the rug than with rights of ethnic minorities under the law.
Milakovic says this without a single tiny speck of remorse for mass crimes perpetrated against Vukovar and its Croatian population in 1991! He fits in among the slime and slimy politicians who will say and do anything to equate the innocent victim with a determined and premeditating murderer.
He, himself, stated that conditions for the introduction of Cyrillic do not yet exist and he, nevertheless, vigorously opposes the declaration of Vukovar as a place of special piety (which concept, by the way, honours all victims, regardless of their ethnicity).
And many other Serbs of Vukovar know that, they do not want Cyrillic there yet either.
Things cannot be the same as they were before 1991 in Vukovar just as things cannot be the same for anyone who has lost and suffered so severely from criminal acts against them, against their family. The fact remains that Serb aggression in Vukovar (as everywhere else in Croatia) started in 1991 when majority of Croatian citizens voted to secede from communist Yugoslavia and Croatian Serbs (rebels) started pouncing like mad dogs upon their Croat neighbours in villages and towns, killing, plundering, shifting them in trucks to concentration camps in Serbia … At times on this blog when I write about these issues I appear like a broken record, at times repeating the same things over and over again and I do that with purpose and without apology: battling against evil and the insufferable stench that emanates from political agenda’s of war crimes denial, from denying the victims the right to heal and choose how they will best heal, from brutal forces that attempt equating victim with aggressor – is a battle of perpetual need to stay focused on the truth and keep going back to how it all started, over and over again until the truth sits at its rightful place without being tampered and interfered with.
And no, Srdjan Milakovic, Serbs who participated in the persecution and murder, and rape and ethnic cleansing in Vukovar in 1991 can never enjoy the respect and the tolerance that existed before 1991! They may one day be forgiven, for it is in human nature to forgive and contemplate forgiveness BUT true forgiveness is a two way process: the one to be forgiven must also want to be forgiven, must show humility and remorse and I have yet to see any meaningful gestures of that.
Indeed the Croatian war veterans and the majority of Vukovar’s residents say the city – which was destroyed by Serbs in the 1990s war – cannot be considered like others. Serbian and Cyrillic letters are a reminder of the conflict’s killings and tragedies and therefore the city should be exempted from the law that provides for bilingual signage under national minority legislative rights.
The Cyrillic script to the still-suffering victims of Serb aggression is what the Swastika is to the victims of Nazi extermination. No doubts about that in my mind as symbols and scripts have a powerful effect of association and in this case that association is torturous for the victims. While Swastika is an ancient spiritual symbol of wealth and peace in WWII it became the symbol of war crimes, extermination, torture, hate, evil; the Serbian Cyrillic script certainly is not in itself an evil script but it became to symbolise evil in Vukovar and Croatia during the Serb aggression of 1990’s, for everywhere one turned where war crimes proceeded graffiti in Cyrillic signs installed fear, announced murder, rape, deportation, reveled in the insufferable suffering inflicted upon Croats . Ina Vukic, Prof. (Zgb); B.A., M.A.Ps. (Syd)
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You don’t sound like a broken record to me. You’re doing a great job telling the real story that must be told over and over so we don’t forget. Keep it up
Thank you Jure, I appreciate your reassurance
Dear Croats, our allies and neighbours, do NOT allow Serbian Cyrillic in your towns. Don’t be like us! In Sarajevo, there are Cyrillic names of streets, and it feels like swastika when I see those signs!
Thank you Bosnian Genocide on your comment – sadness is when justice has to endure such harsh paths.
Problem je puno i širi i dublji od same izjave vođe stranke SDSS, s toga je pod br.1 neophodno sprovesti temeljitu LUSTRACIJU, kazniti prvo sve komunističke zločine i smijeniti ovu vlast koja se to štiti. Američki publicist Jeffrey T. Kuhner je to sažeo sljedećim riječima koje je objavio u listu „The Washington Times” pod naslovom „Mit o hrvatskom fašizmu”. Evo njegove prosudbe:” Komunizam je pola stoljeća nastojao uništiti hrvatski identitet, međunarodni image Hrvatske i samu njezinu opstojnost… Rašireni nepotizam, korupcija koja je zahvatila sve slojeve društva u Hrvatskoj, sluganstvo središtima moći poput onoga u Bruxellesu, politička kultura lažljivosti i podmićivanja, raširena društvena amoralnost, sve to prijeti da Hrvatska propadne. Sve su ovo ostatci komunističkog sustava. Titov se duh još uvijek šepuri Hrvatskom. I dok ga se ne protjera egzorcizmom Hrvatska će i dalje biti progonjena i ukleta.”
Komunistički totalitarizam na društveno – političkoj razini razmišlja u kategorijama „prijatelj- neprijatelj”, tako da je svatko tko nije s njima, tko ima različito političko mišljenje, komunistima neprijatelj, njima dušmanin, koga treba likvidirati. Marksistički komunizam ne pozna političkog suparnika, neistomišljenika, nego kod svakog idejnog neslaganja sumnja na zavjeru. Zar i danas u Hrvatskoj ne vidimo tragove ovog isključivog, netolerantnog i paranoidnog mentaliteta?
Translation of comment by Blago Moreplovac: The problem is much wider and deeper than the mere statement by the leader of SDSS party, and accordingly it’s a No. 1 priority to implement a thorough LUSTRATION, punish firstly all communist crimes and replace this government that protects them all. American publicist Jeffrey T. Kuhner has strongly summarized that in the newspaper “The Washington Times” under title “Myth of Croatian Fascism”. Here is his assessment: “ Communism has had a crippling legacy on the region. For more than 40 years, it sought to destroy Croatia’s historical identity, international image and very existence… Widespread nepotism, corruption that has taken over all layers of society in Croatia, servitude to centres oif power like that in Brussels, political culture of lying and bribery, widespread social amorality, all this threatens to bankrupt Croatia. Tito’s ghost still lives on in Croatia. Until it is exorcised, Croatia will remain haunted – and doomed.
The communist totalitarianism at the socio-political level thinks in categories “friend-foe”, so that everyone who is not with them, who has a different political opinion, is a foe to communists, their enemy, who must be liquidated. Marksist communism does not recognise a political opponent, a different view, but with all ideological disagreements it suspects conspiracy. Do we not see today in Croatia threads of this exclusive, intolerant and paranoid mentality?
REPLY: Yes we see it in Croatia Jure Moreplovac. We see it especially in the government ways and in political elites … it is irritating and utterly unacceptable
Blago Moreplovac, Croatian internet community is very active now. The word “LUSTRATION” is heard more and more. More and more people see that nearly all problems in Croatia are consequences of lustration not done. There is a Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/lustracija.hr/ to propose persons to be lustrated and those who made harm to Croatia the other way. All stated by group members with links to documents. We collect and publish lustration laws from other countries. We promote idea of lustration and we need support. Join us.
Thank you E-lustracija Hr, forward is the word!
Ina,svaka ti čast za ovaj tekst! Konačno je istina dostupna i na engleskoj verziji da cijeli svijet zna što se događa kod nas. Samo tako nastavi!
Translation of comment by NikolaG: Ina, all respect to you for this text! Finally the truth is accessible in the English language as well so that the whole world knows what’s happening.
REPLY: Thank you NikolaG – the whole world matters as we do not live in isolation and Croatian truth deserves the best! I gladly stand by it!
Nemam namjeru raspravljati sa autoricom ovog teksta. Jednostavno, patološka mržnja prema Srbima … Deleted
Translation of comment by Ccccc: I have no intention entering into debate with the author of this text. Simply, pathological hatred towards Serbs …
REPLY: Ccccc, truth hurts, doesn’t it!Especially if one belongs to those who murdered and who would like the world to forget that and who would not like to have to answer for it – now, that’s pathological according to forensic psychology and any other mental health strand of sciences…
first: noone speaks of jasenovac… and how children in school learn false information, even kustos in Jasenovac is saying that its missery what stands in school books… second: Croatian mentality (my mother is croatian, but normal women) is to teach their children what they dont have to know, most of youngsters which arent even born at the time war was have implemented hatred against Serbs in start (cause of house/school education) instead of teach them about love and compassion. and third: Cyrilic is good part of croatian history and only short-sighted people can rebel against that. What if some latin nation was instead of Serbs, would you protest against latin? I believe in right, and this is all but not right, God forgive us all and save us, open our eyes!
Zealot, I don’t know what you are talking about when you talk about school education and Jasenovac. Jasenovac museum exists, it’s not hidden, commemoration to victims of Jasenovac happen every year, Jasenovac has a website with victim statistics etc published. You profess to raise the rights of victims of Jasenovac – WWII – and yet you deny the rights of victims of Serb aggression of 1990’s. Please don’t talk about hatred when we are talking about facts. Mass murders, rapes, concentrotion camps, ethnic cleansing etc occurred in Vukovar (and elsewhere) why is it hatred to talk about that and it’s not hatred to talk about Jasenovac? It is not a matter of hating Cyrillic, it is a matter that Serbs murdered while celebrating Cyrillic in Vukovar, graffiti on walls in Vukovar… all that affects the victims who are still healing. Yes we should open our eyes and make sure every single war criminal is identified, tried and punished, no matter what nationality.
There is a word for your behaving in Vukovar DISCKRIMINATION
It’;s beyond me why wanting respect for rights of victims constitutes discrimination, lawyer. I think you’re quite confused even if you claim to be a “lawyer” – after all no one stopped anybody from going to the cemetery really, but the government and the president like cowards just took advantage of that and withdrew while muttering “they did not let us through”. If someone truly respects the victims there is nothing in the world and especially not a few cemetery lamps along the road that could stop him/her marching forth. I think you confuse discrimination with dislike/criticism etc
Hvala g-đo Vukić. Cijela istina!
Translation of comment by Slavko Pecirep: Thank you Ms Vukic. The whole truth!
REPLY: Thank you Slavko Pecirep and yes, it is hard to promote the truth because there are too many of those who do not like what truth represents because they created the horrible truth.
I swear when Clinton sent the troops over there, I thought it was over. I had no idea how things are there. There are so many unresolved issues that maybe peacekeeping forces should be sent there. In 1991 I was just trying to survive a divorce so I didn’t keep track of the mess over in your corner of the world… I believe the media here leans towards the Serbs.
Well omtatjuan, UN peacekeeping troops were a toothless tiger there and I believe that reconciliation can occur but it needs to be given a chance, and that chance can only be achieved by pressing for those individuals who committed crimes to answer for them and express remorse. Equating the victims with aggressors will never in a hundred years achieve lasting reconciliation.
I am sorry for my ignorance on the subject… Did this have to do with what happened when that man who was allies with Mussolini? It’s all confusing.. I mean what caused Clinton to send troops there. My work buddy who has never been there has hatred for your folks. He’s never been there and has no accent. He says the Government is not letting his people live in their houses.. I haven’t a clue what that’s about?
Omtatjuan, Clinton did not send troops anywhere there, it was UN peacekeeping forces that were sent to Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina when Serbs started attacking, ethnically cleanse area of all non-Serb population, occupying land etc. All this occurred in early 1990’s and certainly Mussolini nor his contemporaries had anything to do with it. Your work buddy is free to love or hate anyone he wants but it would be better for him not to hate but to insist that all individuals, no matter what nationality they are, are being held accountable for crimes they perpetrated and to give the victims of those crimes the due respect they deserve to heal.
That’s well said!
I’m not saying you are wrong but the US was deep in that part of the world.
Yes omtatjuan US was involved politically, some military strategic training etc, but no US troops unless members of UN or later in late nineties as part of NATO in the region
I am in agreement with you my friend and we also translated the good and the foolish one statement however, I fear for your life from those who would still kill, be very careful?
Thank you sachemspeaks, while truth often attracts friends but also enemies I believe it does win in the end, hard work to get there, though
DELETED…Ваша изјава да ни сами Срби Вуковара не желе ћирилицу је – апсурдна. Нађите ми једног вуковарског Србина који не жели да види своју ћирилицу у том граду… Deleted
Blog Admin: Latin script version: Vaša izjava da ni sami Srbi Vukovara ne žele ćirilicu je – apsurdna. Nažite mi jednog vukovarskog Srbina koji ne želi da vidi svoju ćirilicu u tom gradu
Translation of Understand me comment: Your statement that they themselves Vukovar Serbs do not want Cyrillic is – absurd . Find me one Vukovar Serb who does not want to see their Cyrillic alphabet in the city.
REPLY: Understand me it would be good if you actually paid attention to what my post said, it said that “many Serbs” do not want it and that is quite different. But be it as you want to take it, among many sources of information if you go to Croatian TV HRT website and watch online Dnevnik news in the past week you will actually find interviews in the streets of Vukovar with Vukovar Serbs talking about it and some say they do not care for Cyrillic signs, they live in Vukovar and feel happy. There are those that want it if that is the law etc. The point is that Croatian Serb organisations, that is their leaders will push on with the agenda of Cyrillic signs in accordance with the law but do little to assist to check that the law is correctly implemented, especially when talking about numbers of Serbs reportedly living there and don’t and because of which false numbers we have this problem. Latest is that there have been 5,000 people already identified as not living there and yet they’re included in the percentage when the law was implemented. The announcement of implementation of Rewsidency law in December should give us a better, realistic picture.
However, all this with numbers does not matter because it is the effect of Cyrillic script on still suffering and still ill with PTS syndrome etc from horrors of war has on victims, it is the fact that there are just under 1,700 victims still missing… so this post is to bring into perspective what psychological and health and emotional effects Cyrillic signs have on the victims, on human beings and that is a fact – I did not make it up. I will always stand with victims.
Ina thank you for repeating yourself over and over again. I also repeat myself because I believe that until the truth is exposed we should never forget. It was the same for our Generals in which we kept them on the forefront of the battle to freedom and we will do the same for vukovar and Croatia as a whole. We must not ever allow anything Serbian in Vukovar ever again under any circumstances. If I had my wishes I would desegregate the schools and send all the Serbs back across the river on a faulty raft for all I care if they do not want to be Croats. There is no such thing as a minority in Vukovar because all of Vukovar are Croats and if you do not want to be Croatian then you should leave. Our goverment must re populate vukovar with our people by any means even if it means giving for free homes and land to those who want to relocate. Never ever again in my life will we allow vukovar to fall into Serbian hands by any means. I have always stated that our governments true reasoning behind having Cyrillic and falsely counting Serbs as a majority is a way to give Serbia vukovar for a lasting peace.I will never give or submit to any Serbs an inch of anything in Croatia but will give my life and blood for my mother land……Za Dom Spremni!
Thank you Michael, in normal worldly circumstances ethnic minorities that stem from people who immigrate into a country, mean that those minorities are proud to live in their new homeland while still privately cherishing and living the traditions of their first homeland. Many Serbs in Croatia still have not achieved that even if their families/descendants have been living in Croatia for hundreds of years, many do. The aggression in 1990’s as we know happened because many Croatian Serbs did not want to live in Croatia (as opposed to Belgrade controlled Yugoslavia) – and yes, if someone does not want to respect the country they live in then they should live in one they respect or work towards creating more respect for the one they are in. Croatian Serbs should be working much harder in the matter of Serbs who committed war crimes to be made responsible for that, not try to sweep under the carpet. I am always mindful of the priorities in considerations the victims must have.
Everything is very informative here and you are very, very courageous. Many thanks
Thank you Fadenzauberei, when it comes to protecting victims of crime and affording them dignity of healing courage is what we need because regretfully there are too many of those who tend to forget victims and work towards covering up crime. The only way of lasting peace and reconciliation to my thinking is when everyone carries the burden of responsibility for their own actions.
Ina, Your article and Misha’s Alarm Bells of Vukovar need to be translated into Croatian and published in all news outlets (digital and print) in Croatia. We need to counter Serb propaganda and the leftist Croatian Government’s betrayal of Croatian sovereignty.
I hear you Sunman, and agree.
From Facebook: A najbolji su dežurni dušobrižnici koji argumentiraju da je tako u cijelom razvijenom zapadnom svijetu – da nacionalne manjine imaju svoje natpise.
Imaju, naravno, i trebaju imati, ali kod njih se nije dogodio Vukowar.
I: “pa dobro davno je prošla 91. i 95.”.
Davno za te dežurne dušobrižnike, ali tko je osjetio strahote rata, 91. je vrlo svježa.
Treba gledati naprijed u budućnost, ali to je moguće jedino ne zaboravljajući prošlost jer inače imamo dezorijentirano društvo koje ne zna od kuda i kako je poteklo, pa kako da onda zna kako i kamo u budućnost.
Translation of comment by Jelena C.: And the best are the guardians of souls who are on the watch who argue that it’s like that in the whole of the developed Western world – that national minorities have their signs.
Of course they have, and they should have them, but Vukovar did not happen in their country.
And “well O.K. ’91 and ’95 have long ago passed. Long ago for the watchful guardians of souls but whoever felt the horrors of war, ’91 is still fresh.
It’s necessary to look forward into the future, but that is only possible if the past is not forgotten because otherwise we would have a disoriented society, which doesn’t know where to go and how it originated, so how can it and by what means can it know to go into future and where.
REPLY: Thank you on your comment Jelena C. – I fully agree: the past must be properly reconciled in order to move into a peaceful future.
DELETED Kaže jedna izreka ” dobro se dobrim vraća”. A kada nekome naneseš zlo i još se ponosiš time. Stvarno nisam siguran za budućnost.
Znam da će ovo biti obrisano. Ali kada nešto pišeš imaj i argumente za to.
Translation of comment from Petar: An old saying goes: “Good is rewarded with good”. And when you do evil to someone and you are proud of it, I’m not really sure for the future. I know this will be deleted. But when you write something have arguments for that.
REPLY: Petar read the ICTY Judgment from 16 November 2012 bin the case of Gotovina & Markac – there was no deportation of Serbs but hey, you choose to ignore justice so of course your comments will be deleted or moderated if they do not contain facts other people can check by going to where the links or information leads them. That is the rule of this blog, people can have opinion but when they talk of facts then they need to direct readers to where they can find those facts and form their own opinions if they wish
From Facebook: A very strong statement, but valid beyond question.
Times are here for calling a spade a spade, I think Branko B., courageously and as Dr Vesna Bosanac – one of the victims said recently “Cyrillic tampers with our hearts … does not let us move forward … Serbs celebrated Cyrillic while killing us…”
From Facebook: I enjoy much your articles. Thank you much for saying the truth.
Thank you David B.
From Facebook: Excellent. Well said
Thank you Anita S.
From Facebook: Not all have that. Developed Austria hasn’t got national minorities. I personally consider that such a definition should not exist. Lots of complications would be solved with that.
Thank you Ivona S. the issues are indeed complicated but national minorities do need a proper space to celebrate their culture etc however their members do need to want to respect the country they live in and that often goes amiss…
It just pisses me off how some people, usually those who support the criminals, call writing about the facts and giving facts of war crimes to the public, hatred.
THERE IS NO HATE IN PUBLISHING FACTS!
WAR CRIMINALS WANT TO BE FORGIVEN BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT OR ATONE FOR THEIR CRIMES. THE WORLD CANNOT TOLERATE SUCH OBSCENITY.
Not to truth loving people Wilkinson, there is no hatred in stating the facts. But sadly that is what we are being accused of: spreading hate speech when all we are doing is providing facts with comment. And if hatred is wanting all criminals behind prison bars, so be it, I’m with it.
SERBIAN PRESIDENT GAVE APOLOGY ABOUT WAR IN 1990… LEARN TO FORGIVE EACH OTHER BECAUSE EVERYONE DID WAR IN PAST YEARS. DON’T PUSH TOO MUCH!!!
AND AS THE WAR CRIMINALS, HERE ARE ALL THOSE SERBS (480 000) IN CROATIA? THEY RUN HOME? WHY?
CROATIAN GOVERNMENT SAID THEY WILL REDRAW THE CHARGES AGAINST WAR CRIMES IF SERBIA GIVES A LIST OF MISSING SERBS… WE ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER FOR THE TRUE…
Dusan Isailovic, thank you on your comment. Your comments regarding WWII and wikipedia have been deleted due to obvious reasons that include numbers of victims differ significantly depending on who is writing and for what purpose and wikipedia is accessible to all, often facts are not corroborated with indisputable evidence. We do not need numbers of victims to prove the point of this article you are commenting on as symbols do affect the emotions and well being of victims. Not only are the missing a problem, we also have the situation of landmine fields left behind by Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina and it would be necessary to provide maps of those so that great amount of funds are not wasted in trying to locate the mines and remove the threat to any future loss of life of innocent people. I agree that working together is a positive way forward but regretfully there is no will for this on these issues so far. As to your question why are Serbs running home (I presume you meant to Serbia) the answer is very simple: most want to live in Serbia and have proven to either want to grab the land where they live and pin it to Serbia’s territory or they go and live in Serbia because they cannot consider any other country as home. Having said that there are and were many Serbs who are happy to stay where they are away from Serbia.
Just watch the Croatian Serbs do everything in their power, cry discrimination in order to push further under the carpet the crimes they committed. Oh, you poor angels – the victims of crime.
Oh Rossco, especially the Serb National Council SNV in Croatia will surely do that. To my view they’d be better off saying: OK let’s stop this madness and help Croatian authorities catch those war criminals still at large, let’s help Croatian authorities find where the Serbs buried the 1,700 murdered innocents still missing…
As long as the Serbian amnesia of convenience in regards to a) Voting 94% for war (Milosevic, Draskovic, Seselj combined) the duration of the war
b) Serbian JNA Generals pre-planning the war and arming Serbs starting a year before any non-Communist party formed in the then Socialist Republic of Croatia
c) That 10,000 Croatian and non-Serb civilians were killed with another 30,000 wounded, and that over 400,000 Croats and non-Serbs were ethnically cleansed at gunpoint and barred by the “Krajina” from ever returning
d) That not a single Croatian military COUNTER-offensive during the war can be compared to the JNA / Serbian fascist paramilitaries genocidal aggression / that in every single Croatian military COUNTERoffensive a good half of Serbs fled before the operation began and the rest, to a man and woman nearly, demanded UN evacuation to VRSK / RS held territory d) That thousands of bodies and hundreds of mass graves, along with hundreds of mine fields, still have yet to be pointed out by Vukovar / Podunavlje Serbs;
Cirilica will not be welcomed without a full confession, apology, and handing over of individual / mass grave and mine sites.
And for the record, there were no Cyrillic signs in Vukovar before the war, so appealing to the blunder years of Tito’s sham brotherhood and unity in that fiscal abyss for Croatian tax revenues called “Yugoslavia” by the radical nationalists in SDSS falls on deaf ears and as an argument, on its bloated @ss because there were no dual language signs before the war in Vukovar, where Serbs are over-represented in the skewed census as the near and or relative majority of Serbian Vukovar “residents” do not reside, nor work, nor pay taxes in, nor care for their properties in Vukovar.
Nothing more than a smoke and mirror show to a) Cover up the disastrous diplomatic beating over the obscenity called Lex Perkovic b) Change the topic from this governments’ dismal, failing policies and the looming economic catastrophe they are leading us to.
Time for a major change. It would be great if the referendum on marriage included an election referendum to vote these useless Yugoslav Socialist relics and their equally incompetent children out of power for once and for all.
Well summarised therealamericro – thank you. It is just so awful to watch this government that simply won’t listen to reason and fact just like those Serbs in Croatia who keep on rattling about minority rights without demanding from that minority that they contribute to peace – like locating the missing, expressing real remorse for devastation they’ve caused, for placing the Croats in a position of having to defend their bare lives…they call this hatred! Hello! When did truth turn into hatred? I think the moment we started to shout for justice…
For those who are planning to visit Croatia and have a good time
Amazingly beautiful rb – that you for directing us to this video production.
From Facebook: There is a disease afoot in the world, an evil sickness that says everyone should “forgive” everything. Luther’s Small Catechism (which is very Catholic in substance on this point) asks two questions: 1. Question: “whose sins are to be forgiven?” Answer: “the repentant” 2. Question: “whose sins are not to be forgiven? Answer: “the unrepentant.” It is therefore a seriously un-Christian thing to “forgive” in this instance. Perhaps it is not the affair of states to be Christian or un-Christian but it is their affair to be responsive to the people and it is certainly the affair of the people. Informed Christian people must not forgive nor forget the horrors of Vukovar. Not never.
Thank you David B. – indeed.
Thank you for all your visits … can’t lie the symbol scares me but it is so important to read the history
My point exactly Nativegrl77 – just imagine how victims feel – we must be compassionate and do everything in our power to assist healing.
We will never forget what an evil regime that almost wiped off the face of earth whole groups of nationalities. Such a great blog. Thank you
Thank you ahardrain on you feedback.
Thank you Ina for your efforts. I am so blocked when I come across procyrillic propaganda that I can’t find any (proper)words to answer back. The thing is, and you’ve put it right – I haven’t healed and I have weakened through years. Please don’t ever give up.
Thank you Unimatriks Ziro for your comment – won’t give up till justice prevails and healing takes a fast forward spring
The saddest part about this blatant piece of propaganda, is that you actually believe it. To compare the two, which have no commonalities at all speaks volumes about your intelligence, which as any logical human being regardless of nationality would agree with, is lacking. Rhetoric like this just adds to the unnecessary tension and brainwashes people who don’t know any better … DELETED
Sorry to disappoint you Brian but my intelligence has nothing to do with the fact of how victims of Serb brutality in Vukovar are affected by Cyrillic the murderers celebrated while killing, raping… innocent people. If a human being is affected by symbols in any way, it is human nature and human reactions. It is quite sad that whever one writes the truth one is accused of spreading hatred if that truth does not agree with war criminals or their supporters. It is absolutely necessary for all war criminals to be brought to justice, regardless of their nationality, before any lasting reconciliation can be achieved. That’s no propaganda, that a fact of human nature. I think all except those like you seem to be, know that.
Are you kidding me, they butchered innocent people for no other reason than being a non-serb and non-orthodox, the same way the nazis butchered anyone they viewed, inferior whether due to race, religion, genetics, or sex. The only difference between them and the nazis was that the germans had atoned for their crimes and were punished, but not the serbs, and now they claim that they are the victims of everything that has happened to them since. We fought to defend ourselves in Vukovar and innocent people where killed and raped by them, the ones who used Cyrillic, and you don’t think that it is comparable to a nazi symbol towards them. This is like if a holocaust survivor saw swastikas in his home town if it was taken over by nazis, there reactions to this is valid. How is this brainwashing brian, and the tensions are building up not to this but the governments pro-yugo policy.
Exactly, you couldn’t say better Ina. The way Serbs and Croatians-pro-yugos’ are carrying on, soon they will seek damages as the victims of the war and not as aggressors. I wish there are more voices like yours in Croatia, to remind younger generations AND, older as well that the Serbian aggression will never be forgotten
Thank you rb
The logic is flawed in your catchphrase statement. If Swastika is THE embodiment of suffering for victims of the Nazi, then for the victims of Serbian aggression the symbol cannot be language, — it has to be a symbol/icon of some sort. The logical equivalent would be German language, use of umlauts, etc, not a symbol. So perhaps if the Serbs were insisting on some Serbian symbol to be erected/used in the public, then your analogy with the Swastika would hold. You cannot equate people’s script with ideology. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that. Cyrillic script has existed for centuries before 1991, used by people who had no connection with Vukovar. Scripts, alphabets are historically evolved sociocultural tools, something that Swastika wasn;t.
While you are right to a certain point Jerome, your view fails to take into account that in psychological terms (from where emotional suffering stems) Cyrillic letters/characters do actually appear as symbols and particularly because they are not Latin script, many do not read Cyrillic well or at all or just stab and poke at it but in essence the characters are symbols to them, just like Chinese characters might be to a Westerner for example – I think that and also psychology supports it, association, perception etc… it’s a matter of what emotions, associations are triggered by the letter/characters etc and in that way they become symbols to people …
Now listen closely! If you can say such an absurd thing that Cyrillic script is same as Nazi swastika …DELETED
Rob, it would be fair for you to comment on the article rather than making sweeping statements which have little if anything to do with the content of the article. The article said: “The Cyrillic script to the still-suffering victims of Serb aggression is what the Swastika is to the victims of Nazi extermination”. Which, means that to the victims of Vukovar the Cyrillic means the same as the Swastika means to victims of Nazi extermination and if you cannot accept the feelings of victims then please do not suggest and twist what was said in the article – the author of the article did not assert that that is what Cyrillic means in general but what it means to victims and I for one will always respect the feelings of victims. Most of your comment was deleted because it repeats assertions and suggestion that are simply not true, for instance the white and red checks on the Croatian flag are much older than WWII and your comment seemed to suggest that current flag took the WWII flag with switching the order of red and white checks… Cyrillic in 1990’s aggression on Croatia in Vukovar was explicitly used as weapon of fear etc and after all, who are you, who am I to question the victims perception and feelings…the article you comment on simply stated the facts on that score and if facts are as such then the victims have a right of expressing them, the article is about Vukovar and not Croatia as a whole anmd the case of special piety for Vukovar
Here’s full comment if you want truth you should respect everyones opinion! And let others read it and judge it themselves. DELETED
Robert, as much as you would like to offend the victims of Vukovar by inserting WWII history with which Vukovar’s most victims of 1990’s have no direct connection etc and as much as you would like to justify your opinion bringing up history of WWII as if it is a part of 1990’s I for one will not allow on this blog for Vukovar’s victims to be offended like that. They are true victims of Serb genocidal intent and actions and there is no justification for this in current times or history. Crime is NOT a matter of opinion – it is a fact that cannot be justified just as you are trying to do here
Rob – the victims of 1990’s Serb aggression and genocide cannot and must not be associated with any WWII occurrences they played no part in and they cannot be held accountable for someone’s actions from the past who was of same nationality we do not live in a world of Eye for an Eye”as you are trying to push here in your efforts to offend the victims of Vukovar. You offend their rights by saying: well, what about other’s rights? And because of that youyr comments seem not to accept the victims rights to their own feelings. How ridiculous can you get.I do not judge them I respect them and their rights. So, I will not permit you to make sweeping statements about another time in history and try to justify the unjustifiable genocide in Vukovar of 1990’s – if that is what you want I think you should start your own blog
You meant to say “Croatian flag today is what it was during the WW2”?
No, Sekulic only people like you might think a lie. Croatian flag of today is the Croatian flag of today – designed and produced and adopted in December 1990.
First of all you chose completely wrong parallel with swastika and cyrillic. Swastika is a symbol cyrillic is an alphabet used not only by Serbs. What about rights of Macedonians, Montenegrins, Bulgarians and Russians. They all use cyrillic, are present in some numbers in Croatia and I dont recall protesters differentiating between Serbian form of cyrillic and other forms. They just call it cyrillic. Parallel you wanted is SSSS sign and swastika though even there. Imagine if we in Serbia started to riot about Latin alphabet used on official level in Vojvodina or chess board coat of arms. It is ok to remember victims but what you’re doing is poisoning all your future generations, pure poisoning without purpose. Vast majority of Serbs gave up on any claim on lands in Croatia, so I doubt anyone from Serbia attacks you unless you attack first. You also seem to forget that Serbs died in that war as well and mostly rebelled because they feared something like 1995 Storm would happen to them which eventualy did happen. I think main reason for outright mythologisation of war in Croatia in 1991 is the balkan epic mentality. It simply feels wrong to achieve 1000 year awaited independence without some kind of epic war of independence, especialy when you consider there was no such rebellion against Austro Hungary during 19th century romanticism. It breaks centuries of building national ethos. Thats why a rellatively smaller scale conflict compared to the others fought in the region during history got an aura of glory. (12 000 people Croats lost in the whole 5 years are comparable to casualties Bulgars Greeks and Serbs lost per battle in their uprisings or Balkan wars or world war). Also racism is rampant. Every time a Serb is mentioned it is immediately assumed he is a war criminal never mind the fact that out of 8 million Serbs in the region around 300 000 actually were in the armies all three wars (out of that number around 50 000 were in Croatia, 20 000 from Central Serbia, while Krajina army had around 30 000 men at maximum with around 15 000 in 1995, oh by the way you should also lower your number of Branitelji. I saw a statistic that there are nearly 400 000 of them in Croatia,sad news for you,300 000 of them are parasites stealing privileges from 100 000 who actually fougth and saw action), 90 percent of those had boring duties and were just stationed, 10 percent saw action and people who commited crimes are probably far smaller percentage. Sick and stupid racism and nationalism I encountered in Croatia is unmatched anywhere in Europe. When I confronted some wise guy Croat in a bar telling me that Im a murderer and to run back to Serbia with “Do you know I was born in 3rd of january of 1992. Did I kill people as a sperm or did I kill them in my diepers?” “Well your dad did” “Nope, was too old to serve” .”Well you all are all sick bastards and we’ll fuck you up!” “Ok so you judge me by what some small percentage of my people did. Croats like to defend themself that Ustaše were small percentage of Croats yet cannot aply same logic when reffering to Serbs. If thats the case then I deem you even worse murderer. Take the lowest estimation of Serbs killed by Croats in ww2 (right now its 50 000 in Jasenovac, 200 000 in total, this figure is accepted in Croatia) and compare it to your 12 000 lost in 90s out of which most at least died with weapon in their hands. Do I think you killed all those thousands and does it make sense to accuse you. Nope.” I hate mentioning these numbers, numbers are numbers and dead people are dead persons who once lived. Remembering victims of war is putting flowers on their graves and remembering how they were when they were alive. Breaking cyrilic signs is just senless hatred. Some would argue, but WW2 was so long ago, it’s been 70 years, wounds from 90s are still fresh. Well already 20 years passed since 90s wars and in 50 years it will be 70 years from then too. Will it make sense for our grandshildren to kill each other senclessly then? Nope, but that is what your brainwashing and mythologisation will achieve eventualy.
What is unmatched anywhere in Europe, Lazar – is that Serbs & Serbia still deny the crimes they committed in 1990’s both in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina; what’s unmatched is that they forgot that there would be no war had they not retaliated against democratic votes to secede from communist Yugoslavia; what’s unmatched in Europe is that Serb war rapists still walk the streets free among victims; what’s unmatched in Europe is that Serbs like you actually believe that what happened in WWII gave them an excuse to commit genocide forty years – you jump into your own mouth; what’s unmatched in Europe is that there was no forceful deportation of Serbs from Croatia in 1995 after Storm – they chose to walk out (probably scared of their own murderous shadows) and this was confirmed by the Hague court…Please do not come here and try to say what should and what should not affect the victims of Vukovar – they know best and if you do not like that, that cannot be helped.
This statement is a joke considering that swastika is linked with croatians whom always have been slaves and peasants for germans. Its a shame you use the swatica to blame serbs, part DELETED as offensive …
Why dont you post the swastica in the Hajduk’s Split field before a croatia match?
Read the article again, orlovi. No false or otherwise accusations can erase the terrible crimes committed by Serbs in Vukovar.
VUKIC ??? It appears that surname is of Serbian origin..95% of Vukic are Serbs! Please explain!
Ante, your knowledge of Croatian surnames and their places of origin seem to be lacking terribly. Take a look in the Croatian region of Zagorje etc when it comes to the surname. I have nothing to explain but you indeed might have
Well actually it is more than 95% of Serbian origin , but whatever makes you happy, so be it! On other hand my name and surname is true and original Croatian!
Can’t tell what your surname is. Besides you assume that my birth surname i what you see, which of course is wrong just as you seem to be. For your information the surname Vukic from Zagorje is very very Croatian. And there are a number of surnames that can be either or…just mossey away with your idiotic comments, thanks