Look Who Is Digging Theodor Meron’s Grave!

Theodor Meron, President of International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Theodor Meron, President of International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Have just discovered that Stjepan Mesic (die-hard Communist in mind and heart, former president of Croatia, who was the apparent ICTY Chief Prosecutor Carla del Ponte’s “best boy” for political maneuvering of ICTY indictments that would equate the aggressor with the victim in 1990’s Serb war of aggression against Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina at any price – even lies and confabulations that would blacken and attempt to degrade the righteousness of Croatian citizens’ right to defend their lives and homes from aggression) and his cronies (such as Budimir Loncar/former advisor to Mesic and current advisor to president Ivo Josipovic  – but with a disturbing history in the notorious former communist police OZNA, which ordered multitudes of murders of innocent people during Tito’s Yugoslavia) are behind the “ifimes” (International Institute for Middle East and Balkan Studies) which has recently published a malicious article “ICTY: ‘Meronization’ of our future”. Stjepan Mesic is listed as Honorary President of staff of ifimes!

Of course, it’s as clear as day: this group of individuals, with this article, are telling the world that if we do not question the ICTY judgments brought down by Judge Theodor Meron, President of ICTY, (especially regarding the acquittals of Ante Gotovina, Mladen Markac and Momcilo Perisic) then there is no real justice!

The problem with this group’s reasoning is that they do not appear to uphold as paramount the appellate court’s responsibility of weighing the evidence and decisions made by lower courts, that they contradict themselves as they strongly suggest ICTY judges must consider political implications and consequences of their judgments, and at the same time that judges must not be political!

Lord, save the humanity from this lot!

They definitely appear to be subscribed to the trends started under Carla del Ponte, as Chief Prosecutor, under Judge Fausto Pocar as ICTY President (who, by the way had a dissenting opinion to the majority one in the 16 November 2012 ICTY Acquittal judgment for Croatian Generals) when the politics of equating the victim with the aggressor was painfully obvious and “order of the day at the ICTY”.

It seems that Meron, by weighing evidence before him with fresh and non-political eyes (as Appeal courts should and have the duty to do) has ruffled the feathers of those who consider cold evidence and interpretation of it less important than political agendas between nations, particularly of, say, the aggressor such as Serbia was against Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina in the early 1990’s. So, those who did not like the way ICTY judgments were delivered by Meron started a new trend of labeling him with the sins they themselves subscribed to: political court judgments. This so reminds me of the horrible days under Communism – attack becoming the tool of defence!

This “ifimes” group has the gall to say that Meron is the one who “has definitely marked ICTY as a political court and Theodor Meron as its gravedigger and the executioner of anticipated international justice”.

And yet, just before they wrote this disgraceful sentence they wrote that Meron  “should have examined all the possible implications of the partial acquittal in the Karadzic case as well as a series of other issues that have appeared in the final stage of ICTY’s work”.

Now, why should a judge examine all possible implications of his judgment!? Implications of a decision should not and must not influence the making of a decision that is based on evidence and the weighing of evidence with view to the actual alleged criminal offence.

So, “ifimes”  group criticise Meron as being political on the one hand and on the other they criticize him for not using politics in bringing decisions in court!

Furthermore, the group admits that Serge Brammertz, ICTY Chief Prosecutor who seems to follow Carla del Ponte’s political lines of equating aggressor with the victim at any cost, is in conflict with Meron. In “conflict between two concepts and two civilisational approaches to resolving international relations: the conservative and anticivilisational concept represented by ICTY President Theodor Meron and the positive and realistic concept represented by ICTY Chief Prosecutor Serge Bramemertz”.

Can you believe this rot of humanity “ifimes” is peddling!?

The world does not need such transgressions of democracy, human moral code and real justice that Majority Opinion brings to the table as accepted and final judgment in a court case.

For them the Majority Opinion (led by Judge Meron) is conservative and anti-civilisational and the politically driven bias (even with highly suspect testimonies that, if tested, could amount to perjury)  Brammetrz appeared as having continued with after Carla del Ponte, is considered by them as positive and realistic!

And now we come to the real motive behind this atrociously biased and political, but insidious article from “ifimes” (Stjepan Mesic  & Co.):

The IFIMES International Institute is of the opinion that the announced discussion on the activities of ICTY which will take place at the UN General Assembly on 10 April 2013 should focus on strengthening international law and protecting the victims of past and future crimes rather than serving individuals and countries whose aim is to (mis)use the international legal system for their own interests”. Or, in other words, let the UN General Assembly debate on 10 April 2013 be the platform where Serbia will receive legitimacy for its rejection of ICTY judgments (as Vuk Jeremic had expressed publicly during past months) and for its relentless politics of justifying the horror its aggression against Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina had set in motion.

As I said in one of my previous posts, and in my letters to various heads of UN member states – there is a realistic and immediate danger that the UN General Assembly debate on 10 April WILL NOT BE PROTECTING ALL THE VICTIMS, WILL NOT BE AN UNBIASLY LED DEBATE UNLESS IT IS COORDINATED AND FACILITATED BY A FULLY INDEPENDENT GROUP OF PEOPLE.

With such importance being given to “dissenting opinions” as opposed to “majority opinions”, which define the final judgment of a court, let’s not be surprised if we enter a future (after April 10) where the courts will no longer be fully independent of politics, where majority opinion will mean squat, where appellate courts will cease to function, where people can take as valid whatever judgment they want – from majority or minority – where the rule of law, accepted legal standards and democracy (which includes accepting the majority opinion or vote with due grace and humility) will become just a footnote in history books.  Ina Vukic, Prof. (Zgb); B.A., M.A.Ps. (Syd)

WATCH THIS VIDEO:

Theodor Meron on BBC HARDtalk, March 2013 “…Criminal court must not have a broader agenda … we would not be doing our job if we are guided by how people, nations, community will react to judgments… reconciliation is up to the people … not the court…”. Hear! Hear!

Comments

  1. How is it that such a small nation as croatia has so many enemies within and from outside. Why are concepts of justice, rule of law, morality and democratic values always perverted and twisted to hurt Croatia. I don’t know of any other nation that suffers like this.

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    • There could be a remedy, Sunman, swift and decisive public condemnation of several personalities, shutting them out of public life, and prosecuting Communist Crimes.

      Like

    • Michael silovic says:

      sunman , throughout our history Croatia has always been attacked and vilified.Sadly we were not strong enough during the ustache era to over come others in securing our dominance and we have continued to pay the price for this through lies and continued propaganda.But you know as a proud and honorable catholic society god has led us to where we are now as a free and independent nation to correct the wrongs committed against our motherland and our people. our path has a similar biblical nature to it in its story and we should all now be proud of who we are as a people and things will only get better. We must counter those who spread untruths and lie about our past history and bring to justice all of those who did us wrong in the past. There are many people that are traitors to our people and country including Mesic. He is just one of many that should be shamed in public.We all have a chance now to fight for our beloved motherland to move forward to make it one of the best countries in the world which we know it is and can be.We need to stand up and be counted when we see our goverment doing wrong and not following the wishes of the people. We have a long road ahead of us but we have god on our side and a people and country that are proud of who we are regardless if anyone wants to label us as a nationalist or fascist. We should all be proud and hold our heads up high. Now we just need not to be afraid of the future or anyone else and speak the truth…..~Za Dom Spremni!~

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    • Blaze Doric says:

      Ey. some one. who are the enemies within. Perhaps Serbs are because they happened to write Cyrillic . what would you do if Serbs started using Croatian Cyrillic . I wonder how many Croats know anything about Croatian history. благой

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  2. Robert H says:

    Stjepan Mesic learned the art of “survival” through treachery and political manipulation while serving Communist Yugoslavia. The man is not to be trusted. He was secret witness at the ICTY during late 1990’s most probably because he did not want Croatians to know what garbage he told in the witness box. That way no one who could pick up any lies had a chance to.

    Judge Meron is so good in that BBC video. Justice cannot find a single fault in his words. All power to him!

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  3. My Homeland says:

    I wait for the day when all die-hard Communists disappear from Croatian corridors of power and public life. What a brilliant day that will be for democracy!

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  4. Spectator says:

    The announced debate at UN on April 10 will have nothing good for real justice and real reconciliation, just politics. I totally agree with Judge Meron: criminal courts do not deliver reconciliation, they deliver justice with regards to individuals indicted for particular crime/s. Reconciliation is up to the people and politicians at large. But neither Vuk Jeremic (of UN), nor Mesic and his cronies want reconciliation between Croats and Serbs – it is in their interests to prolong despair and conflicts. They are nostalgic for Yugoslavia. So, we must be strong and pursue our independence and self-determination.

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  5. You are jealous because Serb Vuk Jeremic is president of UN General Assembly. He knows how to set you Croats in place. Long live Serbia and all lands where Serbs live.

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    • Oh no…does this mean that St. Catherines in Ontario Canada, or what about parts of Chicago in the USA will they also be part of Serbia…because in some neighbourhoods Serbs form the majority…will there be ethnic cleansing in these neighbourhoods to make way for an ethnically pure Serb statelet…twisted isn’t it.

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      • Twisted to the core, Sunman

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      • Speaker says:

        If there are some croatian people, perhaps they can get together and plan how to share the territory of some Muslim neighbourhoods like in the old times in Karađorđevo agreement. Or If serbian people and Croatian people are sharing the same neighbourhood and the latter are majority, they can plan an operation to expel the serbian peopel. Even, after that, they can prepare a big party for the leaders of the action. Or better, you can get a bishop who agreed with a fascist/nazi regime and was really pleasant of convert ortodox and muslim people into catolic faith and you can turn him into a hero when he was not more than a contributor of the genocide regime.

        I really like this website. Actually, I would recomend it to anybody who wants to know about Croatian/Balkan/nationalism History to see the myths that construct the base of nationalism, the process of convert the other in the enemy (in this case is the serb people and the comunism ideology) and the collective amnesia that installed in every single society and at the same time, how it was imposed the force of forgetting to that people who did not agree with the official version of the pass of the country. Of course, this is not only a matter of Croatia, but the rest of the ex-republics of Yugoslavia.

        To end up my commentary, I want to recomend a reading: YUGOSLAVIA – DISMANTLED AND PLUNDERED:
        The Tragic Senselessness of the War in Yugoslavia and
        the Myths that Concealed It. It is available on internet for free.

        I hope you do not understand this message like a defense of Serbia during the war or an attack against Croatia. It is a critic of your way of seeing the events during the War of Croatia, which I think is really wrong for the future of Croatia in particular and the Balkans in general (I think thus of the “official” History of Serbia about the war)

        Best Regards.

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      • Speaker, thank you on your comment. You seem to lean towards the times past when little, if anything, of incorrect history was challenged. These days, however, when democracy and freedom has taken a better hold (as opposed to communist oppression) you might find useful information out there. The only problem is that you may not accept that information because your mind is made up. So, even if you are faced with factual findings from Yugoslav archives (discovered only a decade ago) – if you read dr Esther Gitman’s book “When Courage Prevailed” – you will still believe what you believe. You will deny, even in the face of truth to the contrary, that Aloysius Stepinac was a Nazi collaborator even if evidence points the other way. Further, I suggest you get your hands on book “Trial by Slander” by Les Shaw regarding how Yugoslav secret police UDBA worked when it comes to communist propaganda about WWII Croatia.

        As to the Karadjordjevo agreement you seem to believe existed is referred to as “possible” but not “proven” or confirmed. That is, the idea that Milosevic and Tudjman agreed on dividing Bosnia and Herzegovina between Serbia and Croatia has, to the best of my knowledge, been promoted by Stjepan Mesic (who admitted he only heard about that, not witnessed it) and his cronies. I suggest you read the latest book “Uzroci Rata” by Ivica Lucic (Causes of war) and you visit webpage http://www.tudjman.hr page “Mitovi” (Myths).

        I do not believe that amnesia is present but rather, attempts by people to uncover the real truths. The world of today simply cannot continue accepting as the truth the history as written by the past Communist totalitarian regime. Those who promote Communism will call this “historical revisionism” with negative connotations, but to me, and to any truth loving person, this means setting the facts right. As for Croatia it is not denied that there was collaboration with the Nazi forces, but many try to deny it the fact that there was also anti-Nazi forces that were just as strong then. Serbia, however, continues to blame it’s Nazi-collaboration on Nazi occupier and place all the blame for the extermination of Serbian Jews (94% by may 1942) on the Germans, totally denying the fact that Milan Nedic’s government and many Serbs that agreed with it, actually brought the Jews to slaughter.

        Your suggested reading “Yugoslavia – Dismantled and Plundered” – a Thesis – from 2000/2001 along with some facts contains a number of theories and suppositions and some misrepresented statements. E,g, page 62 regarding funds the Tudjman’s had in the bank. Contrary to what the author says, the funds were explained through the media as having come from sales etc of many of Tudjman’s books etc, but the author or Master’s degree student, omitted to mention that and instead states that the source of money was never explained. If one finds even a single point that an author misrepresents then one tends to take the whole lot as just theories. Granted, corruption and theft has been a problem of former Yugoslavia and it continued when Yugoslavia broke up, but it is important to actually state facts rather than opinions or theories – we all know that allegations are only allegations unless proven otherwise in a court of law. The author of this Thesis seems to have omitted to point out one most important fact: the SFRY Constitution allowed for secession of states from Yugoslav Federation, Croatian citizens voted by 94% majority to secede from communist Yugoslavia in 1990, in 1992 Badinter Commission on Peace in Yugoslavia brought down the conclusion that state borders cannot be changed unless under explicit agreements.

        On page 99 the author writes: “Ten years ago, both Croats and Serbs were told by their leaders that they were terribly exploited in Yugoslavia, and that they were facing at least culturecide, if not outright genocide…”. Does the author consider people at large stupid and susceptible to following “leaders” without questioning? Probably he does for he would not have written this. The fact is that at least the Croatian, the Slovenian, the Bosnian, the Macedonian people of former Yugoslavia were ready to split from Yugoslavia long before 1991.

        Having said this, it is a rather good read and I agree with the author’s concluding statement: “the time has come to unmask the truth about the war, hidden by the myths created by those who waged an “ethnic” war above all to benefit themselves, and not their alleged “ethnically” defined supporters. The time has come to strip those responsible for the terrible crimes of their “defenders-of-our-nation” alibis. Instead of protesting in their support, “their” people should be the first to demand that they be punished. Failing to do so in 1945 left too many skeletons hidden in the Yugoslav closet, and the Great Manipulators rattled with their bones, making noise loud enough to divert attention of the ordinary people and to conceal their plundering campaign. The Serbs and the Croats, whose new national identities were similarly built by hiding numerous skeletons in their new national closets, should perhaps avoid giving history a chance to repeat itself.”

        Like

    • Michael silovic says:

      Kvota, in case yo do not know this the U.N is not even respected by many nations people and has almost zero credibility so Vuk Jeremic position is probably fitting for him since they both have no credibility and are weak. It has been shown in the past the the Serbs can not put Croatia in its place because we are a much more intelligent and stronger people then many imagined. We also see how much weaker Serbia is becoming by the day as a country while Croatia becomes stronger.The mentality that you have shown here is what caused your country and its people to live in such shame , defeat and despair, it would be better if you put your energy into trying to make your country a better place and advance in the world rather then think that Serbia will ever again put us in their place.

      Like

  6. Marko L. says:

    Reconciliation with Serbs is impossible especially when war wounds are still fresh and Serbs do not accept that most crimes were committed by them. Stjepan Mesic was the President of Communist Yugoslavia June to December 1991! May to August 1990 he was Prime Minister of Croatia, which at that time was in the process of seceding from Communist Yugoslavia. Only this fact tells us that Mesic is a dirty political operator regardless of him saying that he helped to break up Yugoslavia. Bullshit, he did sweet FA to stop the ethnic cleansing of Croatians from their own lands and mass murders that had occurred in 1991. A nasty piece of work.

    Like

  7. According to Judges Pocar and Agius, when they reacted to the Acquittal of Croatian Generals in November 2012, had the hide to say that most of the judges were quick to neglect and reject a large part of the extensive evidence material that the initial verdict was based on.

    What rubbish – exactly the thing Stjepan Mesic would say and count on hopes that people will not bother reading the ICTY Judgment to discover differently.

    Which judge would put his or her career and reputation on the line like this. None, and especially not Meron.

    Pocar stressed that the court had determined at the original trial that transcripts of former Croatian President Franjo Tuđman’s Brioni meeting with the top military and police officials showed that the Croat officials did not have the protection of the Serb civilians in mind.
    Well, well it was Mesic who handed the transcripts, it was originally Mesic’s people who most probably told the ICTY prosecution how to interpret the word “Serbs” in the transcripts – of course making sure that the real meaning “Serb paramilitary and military forces” was lost in the translation of meaning.

    Nasty business indeed!

    Like

  8. Cecil Bonn says:

    Isn’t it just wonderful to watch how Meron stood up to the BBC journalist who tried sooooooo hard to put words in Meron’s mouth!

    Like

  9. What are people in Croatia doing? Have you all gone nuts? Do NOT let Mesic spew his hatred and bullshit in public ever again. Do not give him platforms from where he can play his corrupt, manipulative game! Do not ever give communists the chance to taint the truth, they did it for long enough and look what we have to show for it. Poverty, death, mass emigration.

    By the way, Ina – I tried looking up the two books you mentioned in your reply to Speaker and it seems they’re either out of print or I’m not looking in the right places. Where can I purchase them? I’d like to build up a bit of a reading list.

    Like

    • Thanks Kat on your comment. The book “When Courage Prevailed- the Rescue and Survival of Jews in the Independent State of Croatia 1941-1945” by Esther Gitman can be purchased from Amazon.com as well as many other online bookshops – great great read. “Trial By Slander” by Les Shaw is also a fact based riveting read about how UDBA Yugoslav Secret Police worked against Croatians particularly in Australia – this book has sold out years ago however could be available from libraries or used books outlets.

      Like

      • Thank you Ina. I will be purchasing Esther Gitman’s book as soon as possible, but what a shame that “Trial by Slander” is out of print. I’ll definitely look for it at my local library and elsewhere.

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  10. “As to the Dušan Bilandžićo agreement you seem to believe existed is referred to as “possible” but not “proven” or confirmed. That is, the idea that Milosevic and Tudjman agreed on dividing Bosnia and Herzegovina between Serbia and Croatia has, to the best of my knowledge, been promoted by Stjepan Mesic (who admitted he only heard about that, not witnessed it) and his cronies”

    It was not only Mesic to say that. But, It was also Ante Markovic :”I was informed about the subject of their discussion in Karađorđevo, at which Milošević and Tuđman agreed to divide Bosnia-Herzegovina between Serbia and Croatia, and to remove me because I was in their way. […] They both confirmed that they had agreed on dividing Bosnia-Herzegovina. Milošević admitted this immediately, while Tuđman took more time”. Also Warren Zimmerman said something about that topic: Tuđman admitted that he discussed these fantasies with Milošević, the Yugoslav Army leadership and the Bosnian Serbs,” (…) “and they agreed that the only solution is to divide up Bosnia between Serbia and Croatia”.

    Then you have more people who spoke about the desires of Tudjman or Milosevic about to divide Bosnia. People such Dušan Bilandžić, Hrvoje Šarinić, or like Herbert Okun. And then, after the meetings between serbian goverment and Croatia goverment, you have the Graz Agreement between Karadzic and Boban. But your are right, there is not offical agreement to divide Bosnia, at leats between Tudjman and Milosevic, but wit the Graz Agreement, with the secrets negotations between the two goverments and specially with the declarations above, make me think that the meeting in Karađorđevo or in Tikves was to prepare the division of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

    “the SFRY Constitution allowed for secession of states from Yugoslav Federation, Croatian citizens voted by 94% majority to secede from communist Yugoslavia in 1990, in 1992 Badinter Commission on Peace in Yugoslavia brought down the conclusion that state borders cannot be changed unless under explicit agreements”

    That is not exactly like you write. The SFRY Constitution gave the right of secession but not to the republics but to the people. That means, that Croatia, according to the legal text of 1974 was the republic/state of Croatia people, of Serbs who live in Croatia and other nationalities. That means, that Croatia people had the right of secession but Serb people had also the right to decide what they wanted to do because according to the Constitution they were sovereign about future of Croatia. And I guess in that 94% you did not account serbian minority, who also voted en favour of staying in Yugoslavia.

    “The fact is that at least the Croatian, the Slovenian, the Bosnian, the Macedonian people of former Yugoslavia were ready to split from Yugoslavia long before 1991”

    That is not like that neither. Bosnia and Macedonia sought a solution for keeping the federation alive until the XIV Congress of Yugoslav League of Communist. When you speak of Croatia, you only refer the croatian people but as I wrote above, Croatia was not formed only by croatian people, but also by serbian people. Moreover, even most of Croatia wanted independence, the fact was that goverment of Croatia was not ready to do that like It was goverment of Slovenia.

    With all the previous information, I have not the intention to excuse the serbian actions of the Serbian goverment or the authorities of Serb Republik of Krajina but I want to highlight that the process of desintegration was much more complicated than saying “It was all serbian fault”. Althought, I would say, this is not the proper post to do that.

    Best regards.

    Like

    • Sorry Speaker but I did not mention any Dusan Bilandzic – I mentioned that what you refer to as the Karadjordjevo agreement IS only claimed to have been possible but not a fact confirmed. It’s pure speculation and vicious rumour. Yes Ante Markovic was “INFORMED” as you say but he did not actually witness, not hear. It’s all hearsay and political spin. But at the end of the day nothing anybody says to the contrary to your beliefs will change your mind, not even the fact that there is no actual record nor evidence of the so-called division of B & H. So, let’s leave it at that. You continue believing in the myth and I will continue believing the truth – and the truth being that everyone was either informed or heard from someone else but no one experienced it first hand. I will stick to http://www.tudjman.hr and the writing there about those myths and I will study with gusto the new book “Uzroci Rata” (Causes of War) I referred to in my previous reply.

      You are wrong regarding SFRY Constitution – it gave the right to secession to the states (nations)- Basic Principles I of the SFRY Constitution:
      “The nations of Yugoslavia, proceeding from the right of every nation to self¬ determination, including the right to secession, on the basis of their will freely expressed in the common struggle of all nations and nationalities in the National Liberation War and Socialist Revolution, and in conformity with their historic aspirations, aware that further consolidation of their brotherhood and unity is in the common interest, have, together with the nationalities with which they live, united in a federal republic of free and
      equal nations and nationalities and founded a socialist federal community of working people- the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, in which, in the interests of each nation and nationality separately and of all of them together, they shall realize and ensure( …)”

      Now when there was referendum in Croatia the Serbs did vote, some didn’t, and majority vote won. That is democracy and if you do not like it I cannot help that.

      I did not say it was all Serbian fault, but when Croatian people voted to secede from Yugoslavia, many Serbs there did not want to live in Croatia – full stop. They then formed rebel fores until Belgrade based Yu army came to assist in the aggression. The rest is a sorry history that needs proper respect and all criminals whatever their nationality need to be processed and condemned.

      Like

      • Speaker says:

        Starting with the topic of Karađorđevo agreement the only thing that I have to say that you have the truth and I believe in the myth. And other people believed in the myth as I did/do like Markovic, Zimmerman, Mesic, Dušan Bilandžić who said about the meeting “the essence of meeting was the division of Bosnia and Herzegovina” or a bunch of historians or other intelectuals like Tim Judah, Craig Nation, Francisco Veiga, José Cutileiro or Josep Palau amongst others. Just for the fact that there is not a official document, that does not mean that during the meetings (that is not only Karađorđevo, but other meetings between serbs and croatians) the topic of the division os Bosnia was not spoken. But, as I said at the inception of this paragraph you believe in the truht and I in the myth and I think it is the moment of end up with this topic.

        “The nations of Yugoslavia, proceeding from the right of every nation to self determination, including the right to secession”

        Perhaps I am wrong but as far as I know, the term nation in Yugoslavia was used for the constituent nationalities and serb were amongst them. If I am not wrong, the during the Yugoslav period, Croata was defineded like the national state of Croatian People, the national state of Serbia people in Croatia and the republic is formed under the sovereignty of the people who constituent (Cutileiro and Josep Palau). If that is right and I have no doubt it is, the sovereignty of Croatia depended on croats an serbs who lived in Croatia. That means, that the future of Croata was a matter of both people. That means that Croatian had the right of secession but that serbs had the right of staying in Yugoslavia. And in democratic terms, I would say that would be more democratic trying to get a common solution (and I am not saying that was possible for sure, but any of the parts tried to get a commom position when it was margin to do that) than celebrate referendums to get independence when the country is clearly divided in two parts.

        Like

      • Speaker, Markovic, Zimmerman, Mesic, Bilandzic and all their sorts can go jump in the lake as far as I am concerned – for anyone who tries to convince the world that something they haven’t heard or experienced or seen first hand is just playing with hearsay and political point scoring. The same goes for Tim Judah, Craig Nation, Francisco Veiga, J Cutileiro or J Papalu – just because they’re historians etc does not mean their record of history reflects what actually happened. You cannot say on the topic of the so-called karadjordjevo meeting, which many hold “important” by now (because of rumors or hearsay) that it could have contained agreements on B & H. Could have is not an option for truth. Yes Serbs were among the nations, living for instance in around 6% within sovereign borders of Croatia, they did not want to live in Croatia but in Yugoslavia. The world went with majority wishes and they should have respected that, many did. There was no common ground for the ones who didn’t want independent Croatia, no matter what you say. Your comments lead one to believe that you do not regard the rule of democracy, the rule of majority as important. That is your loss because whether you like it or not it’s here to stay – God willing.

        Like

  11. The reason I believe the fault or blame for the war is on Serbia because they chose guns vs dialogue. But when you have a blinding imperial and fascist vision called Greater Serbia – you know the fantastic belief that wherever a Serb lives or dies that is sacred Serbian territory, god help us – dialogue is not an option. As I’ve mentioned before in other posts, the time for dialogue and negotiation was ripe – Croatia needed recognition, the EC/EU needed respect and a leadership role – Serbia could have easily negotiated protection of Serb ethnic rights in Croatia. But as you said they did not want to be part of Croatia and longed for their motherland, Serbia. And instead of returning to their ethnic homeland they chose to steal Croatian territory – look out Chicago because Serbs live there and they will soon enough want to unite with Serbia. Things are not as complicated as people like to make it…but there is purpose in diversion and distraction…like in Shakespeare, there is method to his madness.

    Like

    • Yes Sunman, and the method in the madness in this instance is “say a lie often enough, it becomes the truth” – the tactic of course was used by J Goebbels during WWII and picked up on by Yu communists.

      Like

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